Saturday, November 07, 2009 Last Update:07:14 pm ET

Education|Tue, Jun. 30 2009 08:37 AM EDT

High Court Refuses to Hear Bible Club Case

By Aaron J. Leichman|Christian Post Reporter

The Supreme Court on Monday declined to stop a school district in Washington state from blocking a group of Christian students from forming a Bible club on campus.

The court refused to hear an appeal from the high school students who wanted to form the Truth Bible Club at Kentridge High School in Seattle nearly a decade ago.

Attorneys with the Alliance Defense Fund had filed a petition with the court in March, asking the justices to review the case in hopes that they would "bring an end to this discrimination once and for all.”

“Christian student groups shouldn’t be penalized for their beliefs,” said ADF Senior Counsel Nate Kellum after the Christian legal group took their case to the high court. “Excluding a club simply because its members are religious is a clear violation of their First Amendment rights and the Equal Access Act. "

Since September of 2001, officials at Kentridge High School have refused to grant official recognition to the Truth Bible Club because they require their members to hold certain religious beliefs.

Though officials have cited the school’s “nondiscrimination policy” as the reason for repeatedly rejecting the group’s application, ADF notes that the school has recognized other non-curriculum-related clubs that also hold to particular beliefs.

"For close to a decade, school officials have stonewalled this group, which only wants to have the same benefits and privileges as any other student-led club," Kellum stated.

 The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, however, had decided that the district did not violate the students' First Amendment rights by requiring them to allow all students full membership in their club.

Now, with the Supreme Court refusing to review the case, attorneys for the now-former students are mulling the idea of refiling the case, starting over in the U.S. District Court.

"We're willing to keep fighting if we need to," legal council Tim Chandler told The Seattle Times.

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  • Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:51 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Perhaps the annoying flagger would like to explain exactly what is wrong with Alockslee's posts. Other than the fact that every post is absolutely correct, that is. hide

  • Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    OOOOOOOooooo! I LIKE IT!!!! I LIKE IT!!!! I LIKE IT!!!!

    Thanks to the webmaster who came up with the "show" feature!!!! Great job!!!

  • Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Great decision! The Court got it right completely. Secular School can't promote religion or establish it to the detriment of others. This is fantastic news! Finally a court decided the issue upon the Constitutional Grounds and kicked the whole club to the curb. The ADF must be furious and it would be so cool to get a picture of the parents and attorneys to post on the web showing how the holier than thou types are carrying on right now. what would be even better would be to have recorded what they said following the decision so that they could be further exposed as hypocrites!!!! Gonna cover this one for sure on: http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear the truth! TFR hide

  • Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:14 pm "Answers based on logic and law?Oh, brother - you sure have bought into liberal trash. And don't take this wrong this time? ----------------------------------------------------------- In response: Yes absolutely LOGIC and LAW, the perfect combination. It is based upon a secular reality based concept, you should embrace it sometime and see what happens. It will allow you to think clearly and without having to find some verse to allow you to have a bowel movement every time you read coherent rational posting and not just babble from yet another pulpit puppet. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality & Truth in 1 Blog! TFR hide

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    It's not me flagging Alocksee-although his/her postings generally ARE in violation of TOS against abusive posts. The constant name calling is abusive and deliberately offensive,and brings nothing to the discussion.

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Would who ever is flagging Alockslee and others for no apparent reason please stop or at least give a reason as to why you are doing it, thanks.

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:14 pm "Answers based on logic and law?" Oh, brother - you sure have bought into liberal trash. And don't take this wrong this time? ----------------------------------------------------------- In response: Yes absolutely LOGIC and LAW, the perfect combination. It is based upon a secular reality based concept, you should embrace it sometime and see what happens. It will allow you to think clearly and without having to find some verse to allow you to have a bowel movement every time you read coherent rational posting and not just babble from yet another pulpit puppet. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality & Truth in 1 Blog! TFR hide

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:14 pm "Answers based on logic and law?" Oh, brother - you sure have bought into liberal trash. And don't take this wrong this time? ----------------------------------------------------------- In response: Yes absolutely LOGIC and LAW, the perfect combination. It is based upon a secular reality based concept, you should embrace it sometime and see what happens. It will allow you to think clearly and without having to find some verse to allow you to have a bowel movement every time you read coherent rational posting and not just babble from yet another pulpit puppet. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality & Truth in 1 Blog! TFR hide

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:05 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show ID4234: "Many clubs require statements of belief or commitment". Many cults forbid thoughtcrimes, as thoughtcrimes interfere with brainwashing. hide

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:40 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ozark: Relevant case law would be Kentwood High School Bible Club v Kent School District. Now, you can disagree with district, appellate, and Supreme court decisions all you like, but you can't change the fact that three courts have ruled.

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "As long as the association with the group is voluntary and not mandatory,"

    The court precedents on record are "equal access" before and after school hours. If a group of Christians want to start a group before or after school then they are entitled to equal access. Now, just as with LU, the school is not required to officially recognize them but they can't deny them use of the space.

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    blacksho

    There are no federal cases that prohibit support of religious institutions by federal monies. If you know of any, cite them please.

    What is prohibited is the favoring of one group over another (establishment). As long as the association with the group is voluntary and not mandatory, stare decisis clearly indicates that religious clubs are allowed on state properties if any other voluntary clubs are given the same access to incidental government benefits such as electricity, space, etc.

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    blacksho, thanks for the clarification on this matter!!

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    al, brainwashing kids to love God, love their parents, love others to include those who persecute them and then having the audacity to teach them how to demonstrate that love on a daily basis through their daily living by using the Word of God.

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:15 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    ID4234: Please read a more detailed account at http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009400011_bibleclub30m0.html

    The Bible Club was sponsored by the school UNTIL they required a statement of faith. After the statement of faith was required, the club would still be allowed to meet in the school, just like many other groups, but would not be sanctioned or sponsored. There is no conflict with freedom of assembly. The club (or, more likely, adults using it for their own purposes) wants both the exclusionary statement of faith AND school sponsorship. Therein lies the Constitutional problem.
    Three courts have ruled that the club cannot both exclude members AND have official sanction. It's one, or the other.

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:41 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "ideology entails mind control and brainwashing "


    ummm...how to say this.... Someone needs to be in control of one's mind! All to often the mind simply goes where it wants. Christianity is about driving between the lines!

    As for brainwashing.... Considering how filthy the mind of man tends to be it could use a good washing. :D

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:18 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Alockslee: "Ironic isn't it that you are among those who proselytize the fundie agenda and don't recognize the very basis of their ideology entails mind control and brainwashing no wonder so many like you are completely clueless on what is going on". Your comment is what is ironic. hide

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:03 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show RevShnorrRocks »Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:09 am : 0 : 0 Flag Many cults forbid thoughtcrimes, as thoughtcrimes interfere with brainwashing. ---------------------------------------------------------- In response: So that is the reason why the fundies and evangelicals are constantly bringing up the notion of thought police, as it interferes with their brainwashing of the minions within their groups! Ironic isn't it that you are among those who proselytize the fundie agenda and don't recognize the very basis of their ideology entails mind control and brainwashing no wonder so many like you are completely clueless on what is going on. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ The blog fundies fear! TFR hide

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:08 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:14 pm "Answers based on logic and law?" Oh, brother - you sure have bought into liberal trash. And don't take this wrong this time? ----------------------------------------------------------- In response: Yes absolutely LOGIC and LAW, the perfect combination. It is based upon a secular reality based concept, you should embrace it sometime and see what happens. It will allow you to think clearly and without having to find some verse to allow you to have a bowel movement every time you read coherent rational posting and not just babble from yet another pulpit puppet. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality & Truth in 1 Blog! TFR hide

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    aveteran, don't know, but that's not the issue of the discussion between rev and I. Plus as long as no other groups in the school require potential members to sign a document saying what beliefs they are to be in agreement with then I think the decision was a good one.

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:53 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show believer, are those groups using government funds or facilities? hide

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rev, so are you saying that Kiwanas. Lions, Rotary, American Legion, VFW, and most other civic organizations are cults since part of their induction for new members requires them to sign a document that says they are in agreement with the goals and beliefs of that organization?

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:09 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show ID4234: "Many clubs require statements of belief or commitment". Many cults forbid thoughtcrimes, as thoughtcrimes interfere with brainwashing. hide

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:26 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Okay, Rev, you don't like the Boy Scouts. How does that relate to the discussion at hand? Is it not a Constitutional question about whether we can hold our own beliefs or are to have others' beliefs forced on us? Is it not about whether the right to our beliefs extends to holding them in public or are we now required to check them at the door if the nanny government owns the building? Oh, who owns the nanny government? I used to think it was the citizens. To whom does it belong to now?

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:16 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show ID4234: "Many clubs require statements of belief or commitment. Boy Scouts..." Many cults forbid thoughtcrimes, as thoughtcrimes interfere with brainwashing. As a former Boy Scout I condemn the current organisation's policies. hide

  • Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    wr, you and I are in total agreement with regards to your last post, be blessed as you continue to serve Him!

  • Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Believer

    Thanks for the clearification. That is probably what Blacksho89 was trying to say.

    Allow me to emphasize that in the Great Commission we are called upon to go out into the world and spread the Gospel.

    This club may have mission goals, but it sounds like it is otherwise a gathering of believers much like you would have with church.

    As such you have to be careful that the other members keep similiar views and would not influence you to walk away from Christ.

  • Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ID, you bring up a good point with regards to other groups that require members to sign statements of agreement with their views. Maybe some other posters can tell us the difference.

  • Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Many clubs require statements of belief or commitment. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and on and on.
    While allowing others would be a way to reach out and fulfill the Great Commission, if this particular club just wanted the like minded in it, why can't they do that? I seem to remember something about freedom of association. Is that out now?

  • Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ID, the issue is that this club required students to sign a Statement of Faith before they could be a member as opposed to the type of club being the reason.

  • Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:18 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Let me see if I have this right. Other clubs can meet and the school is okay with that. But it has used its non-discrimination policy as justification for discriminating against one group - Christians. They can't have the rights that others have. Is that what we are affirming here in the land of the newly pagan and the home of the once free a while back?

  • Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    wr, I believe this club may have passed up a great opportunity to fulfill the Great Commission by not allowing those not of the Christian faith to be a part of their club and if I'm not mistaken they could have written the qualifications to hold offices in the club that would have limited them to those members who were Christians and this would not have been an issue.

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Blacksho89
    You have commented...
    "However, the club should have been open to seekers and skeptics also in fulfillment of the Great Commission,"

    Overall you present a very mature argument. But I'm not sure that I understand your use of this statement in relation to the Great Commission.

    Christians are under increasing pressure to show tolerance towards other beliefs. But this is not part of the Great Commission. Quite the opposite.

    Our younger Christian generation has to learn that they must share a world with varying beliefs, but too much openness can allow too much deception especially for those who are not well grounded.

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    OH NOW I REMEMBER!

    Alocksleez -

    You're such a narcissist!

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ME TOO ME TOO ME TOO

    Except - I can't remember what I wrote. But hey, everything I say seems to offend just about everyone:)

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    I GOT FLAGGED!!! I GOT FLAGGED!!! I GOT FLAGGED!!!

    Tee, hee ...

    I guess me posting that the school is pro-gay with a "gay-straight" club is just too much truth for some people!!!

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:21 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show blacksho wrote: "the club would be allowed-indeed, was allowed-before the requirement was made that you had to sign a statement of faith." Thanks for this blacksho. I'm with you: Bible club is good. Forcing high school students to sign statements of religious faith is bad. I was president of our high school Bible club for a year. We did not require signed statements of religious faith. hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Alocksleez (aka TFR as in Totally Fallen Retard) - You're such a narcissist hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    cheisa -

    LU is private whereas public is all of us paying into it. Hardly the same coin

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:03 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:14 pm "Answers based on logic and law?" Oh, brother - you sure have bought into liberal trash. And don't take this wrong this time? ----------------------------------------------------------- In response: Yes absolutely LOGIC and LAW, the perfect combination. It is based upon a secular reality based concept, you should embrace it sometime and see what happens. It will allow you to think clearly and without having to find some verse to allow you to have a bowel movement every time you read coherent rational posting and not just babble from yet another pulpit puppet. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality & Truth in 1 Blog! TFR hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:58 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Great decision! The Court got it right completely. Secular School can't promote religion or establish it to the detriment of others. This is fantastic news! Finally a court decided the issue upon the Constitutional Grounds and kicked the whole club to the curb. The ADF must be furious and it would be so cool to get a picture of the parents and attorneys to post on the web showing how the holier than thou types are carrying on right now. What would be even better would be to have recorded what they said following the decision so that they could be further exposed as hypocrites!!!! Gonna cover this one for sure on: http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear the truth! TFR hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I think it's a bit ironic that seems to be the opposite of the LU experience with their Democratic Club being denied school support. It's really two sides of the sae coin, isn't it?

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    You know, when I was in school, this kind of situation would never have occurred. If you went to a public school, you knew that you'd be getting your religious training and socialization elsewhere.

    If you wanted education with religious instruction included, you went to a parochial school In both cases when you signed up, you knew what to expect. Today there's an attempt by both sides to blur the line, pushing for wider acceptance of their particular world view. If education and religion were kept in their separate realms, this quibbling could stop. There's plenty of room in life to get an education and be reared in your faith without the two colliding in the same space.

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Answers based on logic and law?"

    Oh, brother - you sure have bought into liberal trash. And don't take this wrong this time?

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Blacksho-

    Stop being soooo pompous. When you're being a bonehead; you're a bonehead. Shove that onto your cranium. And I'm being gentle about it too:)

    Titus 2:15

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:04 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Blacksho -

    "Typical liberal trash" was meant to be referring to liberal ideology not naming you as as such. Nonetheless, you're buying into it.

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:02 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

    Christian students ought to form new clubs in High Schools called: "The Anti-Religious Club" they would still demonstrate the Reliablity of the Bible, the Deity of Christ, Mobilize all members to preach the gospel of the kingdom, they would also present the scientific Case for the Creator.

    Why?

    1. THE ACLU would say nothing about it. In fact they would be rather giddy about the whole thing because of the name of it.

    2. Everyone would be invited

    3. Christian would leaders talk about how to have a relationship with God through Christ.

    4. They would invite speakers who would present the case for Christ in the High Schools.

    You see Christianity is not a Religion; its a Kingdom Relationship with the Lord God. Jesus Christ is it's King, ruling from within His people and ruling without the human manipulation of man-made courts and restrictions. The discples of Christ bring the kingdom of God with them, because Jesus Christ is their Owner and Christ lives His Holy Life through them.

    http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Ozark: As you know, as the US Department of Education provides funds to local schools, courts have consistently ruled that in cases of disagreement between state/local law, and US law, the jurisdiction offering "greater protection" applies.
    Now, the fact that the US Dept of Education is probably un-Constitutional is another story.

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Ozark: Here's an idea...if your club gets taken over by people you don't like...quit! Then there would be no club, and the people who took it over would have no fun, and they could take their ball and go home.
    When a school offers SPONSORSHIP for a group, it is defacto SUPPORTING it. Government schools are proscribed from supported one faith to the detriment of others. I, for one, am glad. I grew up in a predominantly Mormon part of the country, and the schools could not favor LDS over any other religion.

    Rollin: "typical liberal trash" is not name calling? "A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger." Pr 15:1
    If you have an argument based on logic and law, I'm glad to listen, but ad hominems have no place here.

    BKGirl: THANK YOU! You have perfectly captured my opinion. Perhaps your gentler words will be better understood.

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:13 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    al, so are you saying they could put those pictures right next to the pictures of the pro-homosexual crowd after Prop #8 was passed and it would be hard to tell the difference? Plus, the issue was not about the type of club they were but rather their membership restrictions, so the same thing would have happeened if it was the atheists club if they had the same membership restrictions.

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