Updated 09:17 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Society|Fri, Sep. 11 2009 03:43 PM EDT

Survey Reveals Prevalence of Clergy Sexual Misconduct

By Audrey Barrick|Christian Post Reporter

Findings from a nationwide study reveal that clergy sexual misconduct is more prevalent than many people believe.

According to research by Baylor University, 3.1 percent of adult women who attend religious services at least once a month have been victims of clergy sexual misconduct since turning 18. In other words, seven women in every congregation of 400 adults have been victimized.

Ninety-two percent of the sexual advances were made in secret and 67 percent of the offenders were married to someone else at the time of the advance.

"Because many people are familiar with some of the high-profile cases of sexual misconduct, most people assume that it is just a matter of a few charismatic leaders preying on vulnerable followers," said Dr. Diana Garland, dean of the School of Social Work at Baylor University and lead researcher in the study, in a statement Wednesday. "What this research tells us, however, is that Clergy Sexual Misconduct with adults is a widespread problem in congregations of all sizes and occurs across denominations. Now that we have a better understanding of the problem, we can start looking at prevention strategies."

The study, which was conducted on more than 3,500 American adults, is the largest scientific study into clergy sexual misconduct and is being published later this year in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion.

It is part of an effort by Baylor to identify and prevent clergy sexual misconduct. With virtually no research or information available to inform prevention strategies, Baylor University's School of Social Work sought to provide data for that purpose. Along with spreading awareness and educating the public, the team at Baylor hopes the findings will be used to draft model legislation to make it illegal for clergy to make sexual advances just as it is with patients and doctors.

Sexual misconduct by clergy is only illegal in Texas and Minnesota.

Garland hopes the study will prompt congregations to consider adopting policies and procedures designed to protect their members from leaders who abuse their power.

"Many people – including the victims themselves – often label incidences of Clergy Sexual Misconduct with adults as 'affairs,'" said Garland. "In reality, they are an abuse of spiritual power by the religious leader."

The research study also includes a paper co-authored by Garland on first-hand accounts from men and women who are victims of clergy sexual misconduct, family members or spouses of victims, religious leaders who have committed CSM, and helping professionals who have provided care for offenders and survivors.

Data from the 2008 General Social Survey – an in-person survey conducted by National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago – was used to estimate the prevalence of clergy sexual misconduct. Questions developed specifically for this project were administered by the Baylor team.

Clergy sexual misconduct was defined as minister, priests, rabbis, or other clergypersons or religious leaders who make sexual advances or propositions to persons in the congregations they serve who are not their spouses or significant others.

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  • Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:51 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "Sexual misconduct by clergy is only illegal in Texas and Minnesota." What? Seriously... Why is this not on the books? I mean, it is sad that in this day and age it would even NEED to be on the books, but anything to help curb or stop this. These are the sort of trials that can be devastating for young adults. I know people who have left their church because of instances like this. hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Homosexual Man, I forgive you in the context that you know if you have been trying to be rude to me. However, I have not felt that any of your comments were rude in regards to communicating with me, you were trying to be informative based on your knowledge of things, which I do not find offensive. However, I know that I was saying rude and mean things like calling you ignorant. I cannot remember you calling you me anything that would make me upset. However, you knew what your intentions were; therefore, I forgive you. Feel free to talk about something great that has happened in your life and wonderful things that Yahweh is doing in the world, and I will do the same. hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "I ask that you forgive me" I certinaly do forgive you and I am truly touched by what you said. I ask too that you forgive me if I was unkind. I have deleted a couple of my posts in penitence. :) hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show There are documents going *way* back to support the claim that gay men have been the best diplomats. "Homosexuality," Plato wrote, "is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love - all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce." http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/1979boswell.html hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show They don't like it, and we don't care. :D hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Flagged as inappropriate. show As for The Gays, I am convinced that WE MAKE humanity a better species because of our presence. Frankly, straight men would be a lot more violent if gay men weren't around to tell them to rein it in. We are the conscience. hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "You have to take that concept of Darwin's theory, "survival of the fittest," and study it since you seem to believe in evolution." Seriously, I could imagine that maybe (and this is only MAYBE) sexual orientation might be a simple genetic characteristic. (I truly don't know for sure, but I suspect it is a combination of genetics and environment, including the intrauterine environment during fetal development, as well as just totally random chance). OK so back to the scenario. If sexual orientation were just a simple genetic characteristic, we may have INCREASED homosexuality in the population by forcing gay people to pretend to be straight and HAVE CHILDREN! :-0 :-0 In that case, if a single gene determined sexual orientation, and if you wanted to breed homosexuality OUT of the population, then you should support gay marriage. hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Regarding the deleting, it could be a coincidence, but there was another time when I happened to be on late at night, and saw that all my posts got deleted at once, and Prophet posted something while it was going on. So let's put Prophet on the suspect list! :D :D hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Thanks TLC. I genuinely appreciate your kindness. I recognize that I have to work on that too! :D Do you notice something very strange that is happening to all my posts ? Hmmm ! :D Prophet, are you the one who is deleting every single post I have ever made going back several months? hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Homosexual Man, I forgot to apologize for calling you ignorant as well, because you are being sincere. Therefore, I ask that you forgive me, because I stated that you were ignorant when it comes to reading literature, and if I truly feel this way, then it is not my job to belittle you about it, if I really believed that, which I do not. However, if I did believe that you were an ignorant person, then I am suppose to pray for you. However, I just want to make it clear, I do not believe that you are ignorant, I just said that out of anger. I have to remember and follow Ephesians 4:29: 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Since the beginning of creation, God created marriage and sex to be for a man and a woman. That is God's only design for that. Anything outside of that is a sin.

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Homosexual Man,

    I accept that you are a human being, and love you as a person in that regards. I can seperate your lifestyle from you as a person. Homosexuality is not a person it is a sexual orientation. Therefore, I apologize to you as a person for hurting your feelings and accept you as an individual. I would never do anything to harm you. I would hang out with you and have Bible studies. However, I will never accept your lifestyle. I hate it when people do physical harm to homosexuals, it is sad to me, and even if they hurt their feelings like calling them out of their names. However, I do not feel that I have done anything to hurt your feelings, because I have been quoting scriptures, and since that did not seem to be clear, I brought up Darwin's concept "survival of the fittest." Therefore, since you did make that known to me that I was hurting your feelings in regards to my Darwin comment, I apologize, because I cannot say and judge how you feel. However, remember, just because I may not accept homosexuality, if I see that someone is harming a homosexual, or calling them out of their name, I will do whatever I can to assist a homosexual, because at the end of the day, WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS AND NOT OUR SEXUAL PREFERENCES. Therefore, I hope that you can feel comfortable with me not agreeing with your lifestyle, but can appreciate you as a human being and respect you. Just so you know, I will continue to pray for you and I hope that you pray for me, because I do not have all the answers, and I do not confess to know everything. The moment someone believes that he or she knows everything, that is when that person will fall.

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:55 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Homosexual Man,

    Again your ignorance is showing in regards to comprehending comments. I was speaking of homosexuals being destroyed in the context of Darwin's theory. You have to take that concept of Darwin's theory, "survival of the fittest," and study it since you seem to believe in evolution. You are really funny and ignorant when it comes to reading literature. I think that you need someone to sit down and say what they are trying to convey to you instead of writing it. Furthermore, I do not think that I was speaking with you when I wrote both comments, the one when I talked about all sins, including homosexuality and the one when I mentioned Darwin , LOL!

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:47 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show TL wrote: Jesus's "assignment on Earth was not to produce" There are plenty of people who do not have an "assignment" to reproduce. If you can accept that this was the case for Jesus, then you can accept it for other people too. Not every human being is meant to be the same. If everybody was a shoemaker, then we would have nothing to eat. The command to be fruitful and multiply was given to those people at that time. It was not given specifically to every human individual. hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:39 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show TL wrote: "I am only quoting the Bible. " Just as you wrote only a few minutes ago, you can come up with a verse or two from the Bible to support just about any opinion you like. You are picking and choosing the verses you like, while denying the others, and while claiming that you are giving the whole story. That is dishonest. By contrast, I am being honest. I am saying straight up: there are things in the Bible that if taken literally, NOBODY agrees with, including you. You just said so yourself. hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:36 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Homosexual Man,

    I know I said that my last comment would be the last to you, I repent. I will definitely respond to you, because you are only showing your ignorance. What is your point about Yahshua not having children. His assignment on Earth was not to produce, but to save a sinful world and allow people, who repent, to have ever lasting life. I see the problem, you really do not understand anything in regards to the Bible and your ignorance is continually growing. Study and meditate on Yahweh's Holy Word before you comment in regards to things pertaining to Him, that would be a great help. You claim to have been studying the Bible since the age of three, it is hard to tell. You claim to understand since the age of three that you knew that Yahshua spoke in parables. However, you post comments like, Yahshua says to hate your mother and father in order to follow Him. Therefore, if you knew that Yahshua always spoke in parables, then, for the love of all that is truth, why did you make that point as to say that Yahshua was literally teaching hate. My heart really goes out for you, you little lost soul. I truely believe that you have a reprobate mind. Furthermore, you truely cannot follow the Bible and believe anything in it, because you are speaking to me like I came up with how human beings are supposed to behave and live, I am only quoting the Bible. The Holy Word of Yahweh says that people are going to Hell who do not follow the Holy Bible and live a Holy life. Homosexuality is a sin. However, if you still keep thinking that it is okay, please stop acting as though you are quoting and getting your information from the Bible. Please use other sources, because everyone on this blog is really noticing your ignorance in regards to the Bible. It seems like you do not understand three year old words, and you claim to have been learning the Bible since the age of three, LOL!

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." Maybe he's talking about STD's here? Gay men *definitely* need to be aware that STD's and especially HIV are a very serious risk for us. The risk of getting or transmitting HIV and some other STD's can be reduced by using condoms, avoiding anal sex, and limiting the number of different people you have sex with. Some are more tricky, like herpes, which can be transmitted even if you don't have oral or anal sex. It might be useful for gay men to get themselves educated about the symptoms of new herpes infections (or new infections with HIV or other STD's for that matter), so that if they do happen to pick it up, they can at least know what's happening and know that they need to avoid sex and see a doctor right away. hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Verse 27 "the natural use of the woman" This is barbaric. Paul takes a wrong turn here. God would *never* have said a phrase like "using a woman." Paul is giving his own opinion, and he messes up. In and of itself, this phrase is evidence that Paul makes mistakes and inserts his own prejudices from time to time. Therefore we are obliged to sift through what he writes and distinguish what is good and what is bad. In fact it is better that we *know* this up front. So it is good that Paul was blatant about messing up from time to time. hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" That says it right there, straight up: the invisible things from the creation of the world are CLEARLY SEEN, BEING UNDERSTOOD BY THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE. The things that are made clearly indicate that evolution is what happened. No excuses!!! :-) :-) :-) hide

  • Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Here is the danger from believing in Evolution - the creation over the creator, Yahweh (God). Roman 1:18-28 sums everything up perfectly and why we see a strong rise in homosexuality. Therefore, to all my bible believing and bible following brothers and sisters, here is your answer to why homosexuals have the mind that they have and those who think this type of lifestyle is normal. Reprobate mind : "morally depraved; unprincipled; bad. rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation." Romans (King James Version) 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. hide

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:37 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    Garageguy, thanks for your nice comments and observation of me. I am doing my job, if you can tell that I am religous. I just love the attention. I guess my words are powerful and drawing your attention, because you started talking to me first. Hopefully, as you keep reading my comments, you will become enlightened, find the truth, and follow Yahshua, because I will continue to post scriptures. Therefore, when you respond, I know that you have read my comments. Again, thanks for the attention.

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:00 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    Flagged as inappropriate. show TLChild, were you in the movie "Religulous"? I'd swear that was you. hide

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:23 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    "Because the Antichrist looks at things through humanistic eyes, he is led to some fearfully bold actions. He makes declarations that are counter to God’s truth. “And he shall speak great words against the most High . . . and think to change times and laws” _(Daniel 7:25). The ultimate expression of his humanism is to make people think God’s law has been changed.
    He has especially attacked those laws which exalt God as Creator—laws such as the second and fourth commandments. The second commandment forbids the making of graven images and bowing down to them. The devil’s age-old war against the Creator has used the little horn to target this commandment. During the Middle Ages, the papal church compromised the second commandment and introduced graven images into Christendom. Today, Catholic catechisms omit the Bible’s second commandment, thus turning people away from their Creator.
    Another law that has been “changed” by the little horn is the fourth commandment, which also exalts God as Creator. It establishes a weekly memorial to the Creator by commanding worship and rest from secular pursuits on the seventh-day Sabbath, Saturday. As we’ve already seen, the papacy readily admits it initiated this bold act. Amazingly, the papacy has been very successful in accomplishing the objective of making people think times and laws have been changed. Much of the Christian world has accepted the change of the seventh-day Sabbath to the first day of the week, Sunday. The apostle Paul also understood the humanistic foundation of the Antichrist—“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [the second coming] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4).
    The man of sin, the Antichrist, assumes God’s place over the church. He declares himself to be God and that he has the power to institute doctrine, even if it is contrary to the Bible. This again is humanism—humans setting themselves up as a higher authority than God."

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:20 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "Before you start commenting on a site, you really need to take the time and find yourself. What I think is ironic is that you are coming to a christian site and giving your opinions, which I assume you want others to follow, go figure. I will definitely do what the scripture says and avoid you." TLChild, you assume wrong. (surprise) And nice job of avoiding me, by telling me you're going to avoid me. hide

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:17 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Only Yahshua (Jesus) can forgive sin, not man. If a man professes to forgive sin, then it is blasphemous. Yahshua had every right to forgive the sins of the people because He and Yahweh are one.

    Luke 5:20-22 (King James Version)

    20And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

    21And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:06 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Garageguy,

    Before you start commenting on a site, you really need to take the time and find yourself. What I think is ironic is that you are coming to a christian site and giving your opinions, which I assume you want others to follow, go figure. I will definitely do what the scripture says and avoid you.

    Romans 16: 17 - 18:

    17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." TRANSLATION: Go forth and be judgmental. It's our way or the highway. As long as you listen to your pastor and do whatever he says, you'll get a free pass to eternal bliss. Mull that over while we pass the collection plate around. hide

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    shooter, because the roman catholic door may very well be locked by the teachings of the roman catholic church which say works are a required part of salvation which the Word of God says is totally untrue!

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:15 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    To my Bible believing and Bible following brothers and sisters, always remember when you are ministering the truth to someone and they fail to see the light, remember Romans 16: 17 - 18:

    17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:04 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (King James Version)

    10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:04 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Weekenderman, contrary to your twisted belief, not ll homosexuals are perverts, just as not all heterosexuals are perverts. In my life I've known a lot more heterosexual perverts than homosexual ones. Of course, that simple plain truth doesn't fit your bigoted stereotype so you will probably snidely reject it. That's your option. hide

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:01 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show believer, thank you for the explanation. (I was called away yesterday and didn't get a chance to respond then.) I appreciate your informative posts and answers to my questions. hide

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:46 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

    I think we will all be surprised at whom we share heaven with. In my humble opinion it is a waste of time and energy to argue about things that have no bearing on ones salvation. There is enough in every denomination that could be questioned by another. All that it serves to do is keep the body at odds with each other. None of us have all the answers and we should learn from each other and trust that The Lord can take care of what truly belongs to him. We should focus on Christ and let the Spirit direct each heart. I have learned much from the believers on this forum and am blessed many times by what I read here.

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:34 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    "my only concern is that having grown-up roman catholic I never once heard God's plan of salvation, so to me the door illustration would not apply to the roman catholic door. But indeed there will be roman catholics in heaven."

    Believer I too grew up Roman Catholic and cannot say that I ever remember hearing the plan of salvation as I did in the Pentecostal church I was saved in. I guess I just don't worry any more that it is up to me to get anyone saved. That is the work of the Spirit and once I figured that out I could relax and see that the Spirit goes wherever he chooses and saves whomever he chooses. If you believe that there will be RC in heaven why not the door? It is just an illustration that I find comforting.

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:05 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    shooter, I agree with you 1,000% on believers in every denomination, my only concern is that having grown-up roman catholic I never once heard God's plan of salvation, so to me the door illustration would not apply to the roman catholic door. But indeed there will be roman catholics in heaven.

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:56 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    "The Catholic Church has never taken an infallible position on whether Monday was the first day of creation.
    If she does, it will be right. I'll let you know."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ROFL. The catholic's track record for being right is rather depressing. Take Christmas and Easter for example.

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:51 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    Chas said “For all you bible alone types out there . . . Why do you all go to church on Sunday, when that isn't the Sabbath?”

    Not all Christians worship on Sunday; many continue to worship on the biblical Sabbath . . . . But as believer mentioned earlier “Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind”.

    You also said, “The Reason why you all go to Church on Sunday and why Sunday is a Christian day of worship, is because the Catholic Church decided to change it since she has ALL AUTHORITY FROM GOD to do so through Binding and Losing.”

    Again, no surprise here: “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: . . .” (Daniel 7:25).

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:48 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    "GOD gave the Sabbath as a day of rest way back in Genisis, 2 thousand years before the first Jew, or before the 10 Commandments were given."

    You do realizE the "seventh day" is Saturday, right? Sunday is the first day of the week.

  • Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:46 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    The greatest "prevalence of clergy sexual misconduct" appears to be the tendency of liberal denominational groups to allow the ordination of homosexual perverts!

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:55 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Chas said, "
    Try to use the bible to support why you go to Church on Sunday. You won't find anything explicit or implicit that says in scripture the Sabbath changed.

    The Reason why you all go to Church on Sunday and why Sunday is a Christian day of worship, is because the Catholic Church decided to change it since she has ALL AUTHORITY FROM GOD to do so through Binding and Losing."

    You are right. that, however, does not jusfity the change! GOD gave the Sabbath as a day of rest way back in Genisis, 2 thousand years before the first Jew, or before the 10 Commandments were given. "On the 7th day He rested from His labors." The catholic church took it upon themselves to change the day of worship to Sunday. This was a two fold issue. First to incorporate the pagan Sun god's worship day, and secondly as a separation from the Jewish people. The first ones who split from the catholic church did a great diservice by not going back to Sabbath worship. The church today likes to say that sunday is the Lord's day because Jesus arose on that day, but when you go back to the original Greek, you find that in fact, Jesus arose just before sunset on Sabbath. This was a surprise to me as well recently.

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:44 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

    Chas,
    Chapter & verse where Jesus founded the catholic church, please. He said to Peter " on the rock I will build my church". Peter DIED hundreds of years before the caholic church was founded by Constantine. He said "rock" because Peter, translated into Hebrew means literaly "rock".

    As I posted a bit ago, the first believers were Messianic Jews, who worshiped in the Jewish tradition. They were called "The Way", and nothing in the way they worshiped was catholic. They did not pray to statues, in fact, the Jewish Bible (and I mean the WHOLE Bible, not just the OT, because Jews wrote the Bible, not gentiles) is pretty darned clear that this practice is Pagan and thus sinful...no different than the Hindus praying to their elephant god, or their monkey god, or their multibreasted woman goddess.

    If there is a holy language, it is Hebrew, not latin. In eternity, we will all be keeping Biblical Holy days, not man made ones like Christmas and Easter, all saints day, Fat Tuesday, Ash Wednesday or any other man made holiday.Scripture is clear that the first celebration we will keep is Sukkot,(or Feast of Tabernacles), and that we will be expected to come to Jerusalem every year on Sukkot. Those who don't show up will receive no rain for the following year.

    g-guy, you asked what we would do in eternity....for the first 1000 years, we will live on planet earth. Scripture teaches that will will live in houses we build for ourselves, eat foods we grow ourselves. We will worship God, and we will have losts of time to celebrate with our friends, relatives, etc. We will most likely be learning a whole lot from Jesus and athe prophets as well. After that will come the judgement of the lost and their final destruction, then a new heavens & a new earth. beyond that, we will all just have to wait & see what the Lord has in store for us, but you can be sure it will be wonderful beyond our wildest dreams. God loves us, and he would not allow us to be bored or unhappy.

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:03 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    msnchris70

    ACTUALLY, the first groups of believers were called "The Way". Paul spoke of this name for believers in Jesus Christ!
    Catholics did not come along for more than 400 years. all of the first believers is Jesus were Jewish for at least the first 7 years, and believe me, they were NOT catholic!! They worshiped in the Jewish tradition, they kept Biblical Holy days, Kosher, and Sabbath. Their symbol was the Messianic seal, found in a cave in Israel a few years ago. It was carved on a small stone box used to hold annointing oil, and the engraving, besides the seal, were words pertaining the the Messiah Yeshua (Jesus. The seal consists of a Menorah, fish and Star of David combined together. The Star of Daivd is formed from the base of the Menorah and the tail of the fish. I'm sure many here have seen this symbol in recent years.

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:50 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

    First of all the trinity is not a catholic doctrine, but a CHRISTIAN doctrine, and a Messianic Jewish doctrine. It is taught in the Bible, which preceeds the catholic church by 400 years (NT) and a couple THOUSAND (OT). The word "trinity" is not in Scripture anywhwere, but it clearly teaches that there is a Father, Son & Holy Spirit, thus the trinity.

    In all honesty, the catholic church is a cross between paganisim and Christianity. They blatantly go against God's commandment of no Idols. They pray to Mary, the "queen of heaven" among many other "saints",all the while ignoring the Scripture in Jeremiah that speaks of a pagan deith called the queen of heaven. Scripture is clear that ALL who are saved children of God are saints, not just those who have passed the catholic test for sainthood. They call their priests "father" when Jesus said "call no man father because you have One Father in heaven. There is much more evidence of the paganisim of the catholic church that could be written here. Do some research on the subject, I did!!!!

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:34 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    "the only way a person can be saved is by repenting of their sin and turning to God by putting their complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of Jesus Christ alone.

    Believer: I am in total agreement with your statement. I just believe that the Lord has a remnant in every denomination and every local church and home church and any where Christians gather. Some are Baptists, some are Pentecostals some are Catholic and so on.

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:29 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    Jesus said "I am the Lord of the Sabbath" Jesus said...one man practices such and such on one day and another does not... respect each other... for neither is wrong....

    Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath..did not David enter the sanctuary to eat the shewbread for he was hungered?

    The sabbath arguement is such a waste of fellowship time.

    THe WHOLE purpose of man is to worship0 and glorify God so which day is not holy for those in Christ?

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:25 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    Speaking of the holy father-

    Pimp My Religious Leader

    http://poleblog.polemos.net/2008/04/pimp-my-religious-leader.html

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Having eyes full of adultery....." 2 Peter 2:14

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:59 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    When Jesus was praying and said, Holy Father, he was not referring to Peter. There is only one Holy Father, and if there is a leader called "Holy Father" in your organization, something is definitely wrong and you should strongly consider coming out from among them.

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:28 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

    Chas,

    How many times do we have to revisit these same issues? Time after time many here have demonstrated from God’s Word and history that your faith is not the New Testament Church. For example, the claim to papal infallibility; it has been shipwrecked by the many historical facts that cannot simply be wished away. I hope that your faith will eventually rest in Christ alone rather than in a denomination . . .

  • Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:55 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    chas, reality is the events we commerate on those days happened long before the roman catholic church came into existeince and in fact most evangelicals don't observe ash Wednesday, all saints day or all hallows eve since there is no biblcal premise for any of those events.

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