Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Society|Fri, Oct. 16 2009 10:37 AM EDT

U.S. Appeals Court Urged to Dismiss 'So Help Me God' Lawsuit

By Lawrence D. Jones|Christian Post Reporter

The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) is asking a federal appeals court to uphold the dismissal of a lawsuit challenging the phrase "so help me God" in the presidential inaugural oath and in prayers at the inauguration ceremony.

"The federal district court correctly dismissed this suit and we're confident that the federal appeals court will uphold that decision," said ACLJ chief counsel Jay Sekulow after his law firm filed its amicus brief Thursday. "This legal challenge has no merit and is nothing more than a continuation of a flawed attempt to remove all religious references and observances from American public life. This continuing challenge has wasted untold judicial resources-resources that are clearly needed in cases involving real threats to American liberties."

This past January, just days before the presidential inauguration, a federal district court had rejected a lawsuit that had been filed the month before by some 30 plaintiffs, including California atheist Michael Newdow, who previously attempted to remove "under God" from public schools' recitals of the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance.

Specifically, the court refused to block the inaugural prayer saying the plaintiffs lacked standing because they failed to show harm as a result of the prayers.

In its brief, the ACLJ argues that the legal challenge is without merit and urges the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia to affirm the lower court decision dismissing Newdow's suit.

The amicus brief states that "Newdow has filed no less than nine lawsuits, and has wasted untold judicial resources.”

“His targeting of religious expression at Presidential inaugurations is particularly meritless given the controlling decision of the Supreme Court of the United States in Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U.S. 783 (1983)," the Christian conservative legal group added.

According to court records, Newdow filed his appeal on April 9 – about one month after the District of Columbia District Court entered an order to dismiss the case, concluding that the California atheist is precluded from challenging the issue of whether he has standing to contest the utterance of prayer at the Presidential Inaugural ceremony based on prior judicial determinations that he lacks standing.

The court also found that none of the plaintiffs have standing to pursue any of the relief they were requesting.

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  • Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, you're carrying on too many debates with too many people at the same time since I never mentioned anything about an archeolgist until you asked me about this one who supposedly carried a Bible!

  • Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »
    Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:04 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0 Flag

    al, illogical to you but totally logical to me and no it was not me who talked about some archeologist who carried a Bible. But I do know there have been numeruous archeological finds that affirm details found in the Word of God!
    ---------------------------------------
    In Response: did this archeologist confirm OT or NT, I am asking for specifics not your interpretation that since this was found that means blah blah blah is correct.

    Not trying to be rude, just don't want some example to be misconstrued as a talking point. What did this archeologist find out that made him think he proved something from the OT? Remember something from the OT is different and unrelated to the NT so no fudging it into some later NT nonsense.
    TFR

  • Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, illogical to you but totally logical to me and no it was not me who talked about some archeologist who carried a Bible. But I do know there have been numeruous archeological finds that affirm details found in the Word of God!

  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    aveteran »Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:31 pm Alockslee: I've seen you clamoring for responses from others; would you be so kind as to reply to my question in "High Court to Hear Arguments on Mojave Cross"?
    --------------------------------------------
    In Response: I just did
    TFR

  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:32 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Slacker »
    Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:38 am : 1 : 1 Flag

    "Once the religious rhetoric is removed from the Secular laws and practices of this country then equality will be allowed to be applied across the board"

    I guess the only equality you want is that people agree with you, what about the equality of those that don't agree with you..
    -------------------------------------------
    In Response: slacker your side doesn't want equality, it wants complete control.

    TFR

  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Alockslee: I've seen you clamoring for responses from others; would you be so kind as to reply to my question in "High Court to Hear Arguments on Mojave Cross"?

  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer was it you that posted about an archeologist who carried a bible? I can't find that post to respond to it so I will do it here.

    What part of the bible did the archeologist claim he verified? Was it the OT or NT? I haven't seen anyone claim as an archeologist to have verified any of the NT, just some places from the OT. the torah which stands on its own and was simply coupled with the NT to make a bible, that doesn't disprove the essay since the essay is about the NT premise and doesn't cover as far as I can see the OT or torah.

    Of course you will bring up well it was prophesied in the OT about whatever you boot strap the OT into supporting your Jesus when the application as to who the individual was was not given a name and there were others who were rivals at the same time who claimed this title. In fact historical documentation backs up the various people, but are simply moot in those same secular documents about anyone called Jesus, interesting isn't it. Certainly smack down the "they kept it out" argument when they say he was problematic to the Romans and yet these others are listed and that disproves anything about the left out position.
    TFR

    Since the Nt is the portion that

  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:20 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    believer »
    Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:18 pm : 1 : 0 Flag

    al, as soon as you chill out and act civil I just might respond to some of your requests but I will not respond to your demands!! You really need to grow up!! As for the lemon test I have already responded to you on that and if you don't like my response then that is now your problem to deal with.
    -----------------------------------------------
    In Response: The discussion of the Lemon Test requires a 3 fold examination of the facts and a conclusion based upon the examination, you can't just jot down some point and then conclude in direct opposition to the logic and requirements that the test covers.

    You simply hashed a couple of sentences out and then made an illogical conclusion at best and as for what you provided it wasn't even close to what was asked for, so you didn't do what was asked and your conclusion has to be based upon the logic of the facts, not your religious beliefs that caused the results to be skewed.

    TFR

  • Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:38 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    "Once the religious rhetoric is removed from the Secular laws and practices of this country then equality will be allowed to be applied across the board"

    I guess the only equality you want is that people agree with you, what about the equality of those that don't agree with you...

  • Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:34 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    al, my bad, I went back to the infidel, good name for it by the way and simply found articles attacking McDowell, nothing new there!! And I could send you to Christian sites that basically do the same thing. But the bottom line once again comes to this, does one trust the inerrant Word of God or does one trust the words of fallible men. And as Joshua so wisely said centuries ago, "As for me and my house we will serve the Lord!"

  • Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    al, so you found sites that call them forgeries and I found sites that say they don't appear to be, so what. But all agree that his referral to James being the half-brother or brother of Jesus is considered to be the real deal. So you choose to believe they're forgeries and I tend to believe that they're not, but the reality is that is does not matter since God's Word continues to be God's Word and needs no supporting documents to prove it is indeed the inerrant Word of God.

  • Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:18 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    al, as soon as you chill out and act civil I just might respond to some of your requests but I will not respond to your demands!! You really need to grow up!! As for the lemon test I have already responded to you on that and if you don't like my response then that is now your problem to deal with.

  • Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:39 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    believer » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:16 pm

    -------------------------------------------
    In Response: Josh McDowell is handled nicely here:

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/

    Just click through the little blue highlighted hyperlinks to read a step by step analysis of your latest apologist.

    The author on this link was lucky he didn't get arrested for the brutal beating he gave to Josh McDowell, that had to hurt!!!

    TFR

  • Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Josephus entries on Christ forgeries?

    Josephus does not call Jesus the Christ. He uses the grammatical construction in the indirect speech as a claim of Christians. We know that the idea was fabricated by Paul in Antioch when he started preaching about Jesus as Christ. (Acts 11:26)
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=5542715

    http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=173835.0

    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/03/283280.shtml

    There are more much much more!!!
    http://www.rationalresponders.com/silence_screams_no_contemporary_historical_accounts_quotjesus#comment-157635

    Let's see you argue this one away, believer, no one has yet!!

    TFR

  • Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:15 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    believer »
    Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:16 pm : 0 : 0 Flag

    --------------------------------
    In Response: when you catch up to the hundreds of citations I have given then speak to me about citations, until then try to keep up.

    Still waiting on the Lemon Test work you were supposed to do, when you complete it and the rest of the questions I have asked for but haven't received then ask me for something.

    So believer you don't ask for anything from me until you provide what I asked for and the months of waiting on the other questions, when you going to get to them????

    TFR

  • Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:44 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    al, you might want to go to wikipedia and read "The Historicity of Jesus Christ" where they speak to the authenticity of Josephus and the possiblity some of Josephus's writings may have been altered, but still most historians believe he was referring to Christ and especially since no one questions the reference to James being the brother or half-brother of Christ!

  • Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:16 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    al, strange you who demands proof to the best of my knowledge has provided no proof to your Josephus accusations. Plus, why rely on outside sources when one can go directly to the Word of God. And your hate for God is affirmed in your hate for the truths taught in the Word of God. God sees that hate and He is ready to forgive you of that hate if you'll simply acknowledge it for what it is, sin. And if you would repent of that sin and all your sin and turn to Him by putting your complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of Christ alone you can become a child of His. As for your speaking to the writing of the Old Testament, Josh McDowell does a very thorough job of explaining that whole process in his book, "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" and a video callled "The Reliability Of Scripture" in which he shares how the writings found in the Old Testament as well as in the New Testament can be fully trusted.

  • Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:17 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    believer »Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:18 pm al, you know for someone who doesn't appear to believe in God you sure are awful angry with Him. I mean you are getting all bent out of shape at "In God We Trust" on our money and "One Nation Under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance. I mean if you don't even believe in God, then what are you getting so bent out of shape over, I mean I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, but I sure don't get all bent out of shape when I see Letters to Santa in the local newspaper or Easter Egg Hunts around Easter??
    -----------------------------------------------------
    In Response: Don't make assumptions on something you don't have any knowledge on. I am not bent out of shape over God, I don't like the f&e crowd who have tried to hijack religion. They have ruined America, but it is being recovered and much more quickly than you like!

    I support the Constitution and want the Secular Laws of this Country honored. You on the other hand think that you can ignore the laws and break them under some delusion based upon a fantasy. The Secular Laws were ignored and circumvented by fanatics who make claims and then when called on it they deny it. Get used to hearing and reading the following you don't get away with forcing your religion and ideology on America, it is over. It isn't sin to obey the law, keep your book, it contradicts itself and you can't understand what was even written in it. When are you going to put up the proof of who wrote your NT anyway?

    We have a clear concise copy of the OT and it has been checked for exactness every time it is copied, ever hear of a Sopher? that is the person who checks the Torah and insures it is an exact copy, that is the book that if Jesus existed would have read and preached. The stories written 70 years after some alleged existence can't be proved as valid and no evidence exists to show Jesus existed by the authorities who recorded all the executions of criminals. Where are the secular records, they would exist if it happened.

    So once again, I am not angry or upset with any god, I want the f&e crowd put in their place and kept there.

    So put up your extra biblical references from people and governmental authorities who have no dog in the race and show us all that this belief has something to believe in and some basis to an actual person, not a combination of a deity that was taken form numerous previous gods from previous societies and religions. Certainly if those miracles happened someone somewhere would have witnessed them and wrote it down, they wrote down the paint colors and the crop yields, but something miraculous surely would be noticed and the Romans who had numerous gods would have recorded something. It would certainly have appeared in Josephus, but everyone now knows even those 2 sentences were forgeries, so you got absolutely nothing and with nothing existing , a person can't get upset with nothing.

    TFR

  • Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:00 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 8

    "Once the religious rhetoric is removed from the Secular laws and practices of this country then equality will be allowed to be applied across the board."

    Yup, that's when sin will be sponsored by our government -- across the board.

  • Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:19 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 6

    So the troll is silent because it's so busy deleting any post with which it disagrees. No surprise there.

  • Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:18 pm Agree: 10   Disagree: 12

    al, you know for someone who doesn't appear to believe in God you sure are awful angry with Him. I mean you are getting all bent out of shape at "In God We Trust" on our money and "One Nation Under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance. I mean if you don't even believe in God, then what are you getting so bent out of shape over, I mean I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, but I sure don't get all bent out of shape when I see Letters to Santa in the local newspaper or Easter Egg Hunts around Easter??

  • Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:08 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 3

    John5796 »Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:16 pm
    "This past January, just days before the presidential inauguration, a federal district court had rejected a lawsuit that had been filed the month before by some 30 plaintiffs, including California atheist Michael Newdow, who previously attempted to remove "under God" from public schools' recitals of the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance." I find it amazing the 30 malcontents are even heard in a court of law, and how small perverted groups are tearing away at the moral fabric of this society.
    --------------------------------------------------
    In Response: Would you be happier if there were more Plaintiffs? Would a larger number of Plaintiffs somehow make the action valid to you?

    In your fantasy world of religion, you forget that this country allows 1 person to being the action and have the question decided by the courts. 1 person who brings the case is entitled to argue the issue and overturn the entire vote of Congress when the court if they followed the law would have held for the Plaintiffs.

    It is your blindness to the secular roots and secular laws of this country along with your indoctrination under revisionist history and the unwillingness to listen to facts that prevent you from understanding the case.

    Once the religious rhetoric is removed from the Secular laws and practices of this country then equality will be allowed to be applied across the board. It is only those brainwashed by ideology of religion that prevents people from cooperating to end disease, war, famine and the other problems plaguing the world.

    When you remove the religious component used by people to prevent equality then you remove the main reason for the problems. The disagreement over beliefs is the main reason people still fight each other. there are lesser ones, but overall the main component in each problem can be directly traced to the religious ideology of some sect trying to force others to follow it.
    TFR

  • Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:53 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    Wow, the silence from our latest troll if deafening .

  • Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:52 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 6

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Wow, the silence from our latest troll if deafening . . . hide

  • Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:27 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 9

    Bob: None of us want the U.S. to be a theocracy, but nice trolling effort.

  • Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:38 am Agree: 10   Disagree: 8

    From a previous comment: "The purpose of the Pledge is not religious"

    That's correct, so Christians should not care if the reference to a god was removed.

    But many Christians do care about this because they want to make America a theocracy like Iran.

  • Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:36 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 8

    The phrase "so help me God" in the presidential inaugural oath is optional, but even an atheist like Obama used it because he knows he has to suck up to Christians to get reelected.

    I am assuming Obama is an atheist who won't admit he's an atheist. I could be wrong, but I think Obama is too intelligent to really believe in Christian woo-woo.

  • Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:27 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    I can see where they are coming from considering "so help me God" has only been in the pledge since the beginning of the Cold War, but I think this is one of the many things that are blown way out of porportion by the Atheist/Agnostic community.

    1) the pledge doesn't necessarily say it is a Christian God so those who don't believe in Christianity can still say it and think of their God when declaring their allegence to the United States of America.

    2) For those who are Atheist/agnostic why can't you just skip that one line and say the rest of the pledge? I knew people in high school who did that and nobody cared. The purpose of the Pledge is not religious, it is simply to say "I am a US citizen, I am proud to be one, and by the highest regard of my moral compass I would NEVER betray my country."

    3) Seriously there are worse things to worry about in this world like food shortages, the economy, pig flu, the healthcare debate, natural disasters, etc and compared to those distresses I don't feel "under god" is really something to have a big cow about you could be worse off. Like someone in Haiti who doesn't have the privilage to eat more than once per day and the privilage of drinking clean water.

  • Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:11 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 10

    Flagged as inappropriate. show weekenderman - I was thinking the same thing. I'm sure he was sorry that it hadn't been rejected for his presidency, instead of giving another freakliberal the honor. John5796 - It's true that small perverted groups are tearing away at the moral fabric of society, using the victories they obtain in Godless countries or states to pressure others to follow suit (join the parade). After failing to see the Radical Feminists and Homosexuals forming their secret alliance in the 1970's and failing to counter the spread of their warped ideas in every women's and parenting magazine in the 1980's, and failing to prevent the RFHA's takeover of every public school in North America, a growing number of the majority of decent folk are waking up - angering the RFHA who are within reach of all the goals they've been secretly plotting to obtain since the early 1970's. It isn't the large groups like ACORN, NOW, Planned Parenthood and the Democratic Party that we need to fear. It's the thousands of small groups in our communities and in our local political bodies that we must fight, and now. While corporate greed may fuel a few, the majority of those who are pushing for a one-world government are deviants, intending to force abortion and homosexual sex acts on the world. The baby-boomer women need to be disregarded. Most of the GenX need to be deprogrammed. The intense brainwashing of the GenY needs to be stopped by destroying or taking back the public school system (by first breaking up the Teachers' Unions). We need a committee to study the content of our science and history books, and compare them to past editions. If the Republicans are too weak-willed to nominate a traditionalist ticket next time, then a new traditional party needs to be formed right away. Massive campaigns against pro-deviant leaders like Gov. Arnold S. need to be launched across America by a national group with local affiliated groups. Before America becomes another Sodom, normal people need to fight to save her from the filthy perverts who are a tiny, but vocal minority. TLChild - see The Closet Flagger has nothing better to do than give us all thumbs down while he sits naked in his mother's basement. TGF --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches. hide

  • Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:44 pm Agree: 10   Disagree: 17

    I think Michael Newdow has a mental disorder, because why would someone become offended by something, in Newdow's opinion, that does not exist. Obviously, Newdow believe that Yahweh is very real, and therefore, he is trying to fight Yahweh because he is angry about something that happened to him in his past. I think that if there are any Christians around Newdow, they need to tell him that it is okay, Yahweh loves him too.

  • Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:16 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 14

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "This past January, just days before the presidential inauguration, a federal district court had rejected a lawsuit that had been filed the month before by some 30 plaintiffs, including California atheist Michael Newdow, who previously attempted to remove "under God" from public schools' recitals of the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance." I find it amazing the 30 malcontents are even heard in a court of law, and how small perverted groups are tearing away at the moral fabric of this society. hide

  • Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:31 am Agree: 10   Disagree: 16

    I'm pretty sure BHO would have appreciated if this expression could have been deleted before his inauguration this past January.

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