Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

World|Sat, Nov. 07 2009 11:56 AM EDT

Italy Gov't to Appeal Ruling on Classroom Crucifixes

By Aaron J. Leichman|Christian Post Reporter

The Italian government will appeal a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, which decided this past week that hanging of crucifixes school classrooms violates religious and education freedoms.

  • No crucifixes in Italian schools
    (Photo: AP Images / Giuseppe Aresu, File)
    In this Sunday, April 9, 2006 file photo, a cameraman films a crucifix hanging from a wall of a classroom used as a polling station during Italy's general election, in Milan, Italy. On Tuesday, Nov. 3, 2009 Europe's court of human rights said the display of crucifixes in Italian public schools violates religious and education freedoms.

Italy's Minister of Public Instruction Mariastella Gelmini and Minister of the Interior Claudio Scajola told media this week that the state will appeal Tuesday’s decision, arguing that the cross in Italy has become more than a symbol of the Church. They say it has also become a symbol of Italian and European history and tradition.

“The crucifix is a global symbol of love, docility and peace,” Scajola said in an e-mailed statement.

Crosses in Italy are "a symbol of Italian tradition" and their exposure does not necessarily signify affiliation to the Catholic Church, Gelmini added.

According to the European Court of Human Rights, however, the display of crucifixes in Italian public schools is in violation with the European Convention on Human Rights, particularly in when it comes to the right to education and the freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

In its ruling Tuesday, the Strasbourg-based court said the presence of the crucifix "could easily be interpreted by pupils of all ages as a religious sign and they would feel that they were being educated in a school environment bearing the stamp of a given religion."

“This could be encouraging for religious pupils, but also disturbing for pupils who practiced other religions or were atheists, particularly if they belonged to religious minorities,” it added.

Though the court stopped short of ordering Italy to remove the crucifixes, which are common in Italian public schools, the seven-judge panel’s decision to rule their display as a “violation” has upset many in the predominantly Catholic country. Though Catholicism is not the official religion of Italy, around 90 percent of the population claims to be Roman Catholic.

For Italy's conservative Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, Tuesday's ruling was "disrespectful" and one that has no legal weight and cannot be enforced.

"Our country can only be described as Christian," he said Friday, according to the Italian news agency Adnkronos International. "Even an atheist has to agree with this."

Berlusconi further noted that eight European countries have the cross on their national flags.

"Should this be changed because there are foreigners of other faiths who have taken citizenship?" he asked.

To appeal the ruling, the Italian government must take their case up to the European Court of Human Rights' Grand Chamber of 17 judges, whose decisions are binding.

The government, in the meantime, has been ordered by the court to pay a euro5,000 ($7,390) fine to Soile Lautsi, the mother of two children who wanted crucifixes removed from her children's classrooms. Lautsi, who is of Finnish origins, filed her case with the European Court of Human Rights in July 2006, after Italy's Constitutional Court dismissed her complaint.

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  • Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:05 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    "I can get chocolate whenever I want,"

    That explains a lot of your bizarre posts. Maybe you shouldn't post until you come down from that gluttonous sugar high.

  • Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:04 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    "But you are teling me that all we have to do is celebrate easter."

    The fact that you reject Easter says that you reject the resurrection of Christ. Why call yourself Christian? You are obviously part of some other religion.

  • Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:26 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    "RaeJae-everyone likes the easter bunny-he brings chocolate :-)"

    I can get chocolate whenever I want, maybe you need to move closer to a town, or maybe you shouldn't eat it, it's bad for your teeth.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    RaeJae-everyone likes the easter bunny-he brings chocolate :-)

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    "Don't even celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord. Shameful."

    I think about it every day.

    "That's why real Christians celebrate Easter."

    I thought being a Chritian was believing that the Lord Jesus Christ shed his precious blood on the cross and that he died, was buried and on the third day rose again and that he did it all for me a lost, guilty and hell deserving sinner.
    But you are teling me that all we have to do is celebrate easter.

    And there was me thinking that by not celebrating a pagan festival with the likes of herod was a good thing

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:07 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    "Christ is no longer on the cross, he is risen and on the right hand of the Father in heaven."

    That's why real Christians celebrate Easter.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:06 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    ""Ishtar = Easter"

    I know and I don't celebrate it."

    Don't even celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord. Shameful.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:09 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    http://www.biblelight.org/graphics/ishgate.jpg

    Blue.

    :-)

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:05 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/151262781_7c60334939.jpg

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:03 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    http://lion.ibca.us/images/Lion_from_Ishtar_Gate.jpg

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:03 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    http://www.westcler.org/gh/curlessmatt/arthistory/2a/IshtarGate1.jpg

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Ishtar_Gate_at_Berlin_Museum.jpg

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:59 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    :-O

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:57 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    "Ishtar = Easter"

    I know and I don't celebrate it.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:49 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Ishtar = Easter

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:25 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Well I don't celebrate ishtar for starters, but what has this to do with crucifixes.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    My last comment wasn't in response to your last comment btw.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    But were any of them wearing crucifixes?

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:18 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    RaeJae»Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:15 am Why would anyone want to wear a crucifix with a pretend Jesus on it anyway.Christ is no longer on the cross, he is risen and on the right hand of the Father in heaven.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: Well you may be able to give a chronological account in response to this challenge here since you seem so convinced of it.

    http://ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=stone

    All you have to do is use all the points in all 4 gospels without omitting a single detail and don't interpret, just list them all and provide the account using every single point in all 4 gospels. Just follow the instructions on the link.

    Should be easy for you since you are so convinced of the resurrection. Shouldn't take you very long either since every point is given on the link to speed it up.

    Have fun.
    TFR

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:10 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Cold Wave Linked to Temperatures
    Who would have thought!
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Enfield (London) Couple Slain; Police Suspect Homicide
    They may be on to something!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Red Tape Holds Up New Bridges
    You mean there's something stronger than duct tape?
    ----------------------------------------------- -----------
    Man Struck By Lightning: Faces Battery Charge
    He probably IS the battery charge!
    ----------------------------------------------
    New Study of Obesity Looks for Larger Test Group
    Weren't they fat enough?!
    -----------------------------------------------
    Astronaut Takes Blame for Gas in Spacecraft
    That's what he gets for eating those beans!
    ---------------- ---------------------------------
    Kids Make Nutritious Snacks
    Do they taste like chicken?
    ****************************************
    Local High School Dropouts Cut in Half
    Chainsaw Massacre all over again!
    ***************************************************
    Hospitals are Sued by 7 Foot Doctors
    Boy are they tall!
    *******************************************
    And the winner is....
    Typhoon Rips Through Cemetery; Hundreds Dead
    Did I read that right?
    *************************************************
    Some headlines from Newspapers. This came over on one of the email lists and thought it might be amusing to post here.I didn't prepare it only cut and pasted it.

    TFR

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:10 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    These are real headlines taken from various newspapers! Go figure!
    Man Kills Self Before Shooting Wife and Daughter
    This one caught in the Newspaper the other day and called the Editorial Room and asked who wrote this. It took two or three readings before the editor realized that what he was reading was impossible!!! They put in a correction the next day.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Something Went Wrong in Jet Crash, Expert Says
    Really? Ya think?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Police Begin Campaign to Run Down Jaywalkers
    Now that's taking things a bit far!
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Panda Mating Fails; Veterinarian Takes Over
    What a guy!
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Miners Refuse to Work after Death
    No-good-for-nothing' lazy so-and-so's!
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Juvenile Court to Try Shooting Defendant
    See if that works any better than a fair trial!
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    War Dims Hope for Peace
    I can see where it might have that effect!
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    If Strike Isn't Settled Quickly, It May Last Awhile
    Ya think?!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Continued
    TFR

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "Why would anyone want to wear a crucifix with a pretend Jesus on it anyway."

    One word: vampires

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:49 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    "I do not nor did I ever give permission for my posts on any location to be put up on any site that I wasn't first asked and gave permission for prior to the posting."

    Alocksee,

    I am putting together a book for elementary school students on writing and I would like permission to include some of your run-on sentences for the "Don't do this" section. What do you say?

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:15 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Why would anyone want to wear a crucifix with a pretend Jesus on it anyway.

    Christ is no longer on the cross, he is risen and on the right hand of the Father in heaven.

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    mathetes »Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:31 pm
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: How well do you know copyright law mathetes? I could suggest you contact the last person who tried the same thing on their forum but they no longer have a web presence to speak of. They too took my comments from one place and posted them without permission, now they no longer have a forum to do that.

    The practice of quoting me out of context is habitual with the f&e crowd, so this is nothing new and attempts at addressing those that engage in this simply won't admit to the practice after the proof is provided. And to your buddy, I am still waiting for him to contact me if he really wants to debate the challenge since his lack of asking indicates his unwillingness to do so. His practice to post reponses to others and then not to meet them to discuss or debate them on a location that removes any control from him smacks of his inability to deal with being made to play by the established rules of debate. In other words, others spread the word, but he hasn't asked me directly nor accepted debating where he has to follow the rules and prevent outside interference from interrupting or interfering in the discussion thread.

    I don't post on that site, nor do I have an account, but I have spoken with a few people about how they were treated and since it would not be possible to receive fair treatment from him on his site that precludes holding any discussion there. In fact his response to the out of context material also shows that he comments where he controls the forum, I posted here and I don't have any capacity to control the posting.

    I do not nor did I ever give permission for my posts on any location to be put up on any site that I wasn't first asked and gave permission for prior to the posting. You may want to let Holding know I find that conduct in violation of my copyright and he is to remove the material immediately. If he wished to discuss the material and ask permission then he can contact me, but first he must demonstrate by removing any material about me or written by me from that site prior to contacting me as a show of his willingness to be fair and of course follow the law.

    He has already admitted to taking other material from others and then doesn't provide the proper links to cross check his scholarship. so I doubt he is willing to listen to reason and simply intends to leave it up regardless of the law on the subject of copyright.

    I have seen and experienced your tactics before and you are foolish to think goading me will get what you desire, if Holding is seriously interested in a real debate under the rules he can ask me for himself.
    TFR

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:31 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Al,

    You know you don't stand a snowball's chance unless you're judge, jury, and excutioner, so we figured you'd respond as such.

    Congrats again on your reward. Isn't it good to know you'll always be (in)famous?
    http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=133752&page=9

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Cheisa »Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:37 pm
    We are Christian thugs. We are the majority, therefore we must always have our way. Because we are Christians we don't care about anyone but ourselves.
    The entire nation isn't obligated to change it's symbols because someone who asked to be admitted as a new member of that society has a problem with those symbols. It is the new citizen who needs to adapt to the ways of his new country, not the other way around. Otherwise, you have a tyranny of the minority, which is worse.
    ___________________________________________________
    In Response: Thanks for saying that. The Treaty of Tripoli clearly states that this country wasn't founded on christian principles so why is your side forcing your ideology on the rest of us? That would dovetail in with your statements perfectly.

    There’s also the Treaty of Tripoli which clearly says the US was not founded on the Christian religion, and it was “endorsed by Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and President John Adams” and unanimously ratified by the Senate. Here is the quote from it:

    As the Government of the United States… is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion — as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity of Musselmen.
    http://unreasonablefaith.com/2009/08/24/our-godless-constitution/

    So why are you continuing to do it since you say it is tyranny by as you put it.

    TFR

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    mathetes »
    Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:58 am
    -----------------------------------------------------
    In Response: typical whine AFTER losing mathetes, whine after losing. If Holding wants to debate me then let him ask, if he can agree to terms then it may happen, if he can't then you still lose.

    You obviously don't understand what a debate is or how it is conducted, there are rules established BEFORE it begins and since you still haven't admitted you lost there is no need to continue this as no matter how well I do you won't admit I won.

    So since it is a no win for me and just a chance for you to take shots and not follow the rules of the original challenge there is no reason for me to do it again.

    So the only chance for fair treatment of all involved is for me to host and for the debaters to agree to rules at the start with the agreement that once the debate is over a winner is declared. Since Holding hasn't asked nor agreed to the terms of the challenge, there is no reason to bother with this any longer.

    If you want any chance of me doing this then both you and believer must admit that you didn't follow the rules, that you cheated and that you failed to refute the essay under the terms given at the start. You must also apologize for accusing me of any wrongdoing since you refuse to prove your accusations and you know it never happened.

    So when you and he do that we can begin speaking on this again.
    TFR

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:09 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Al,

    Congratulations! You've won an award - you can read about it at http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=133752&page=9

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:58 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Al, you are one egotistical wonder!

    You make slanderous comments about Holding and his scholarship, and you cast aspersions on his character, then you expect him to come to you and play by your rules.

    WOW! You are so brave while you hide behind your fake screen name; otherwise Holding, a published author, would sue you for defamation of character and who knows what else.

    Big brave Alockslee - he's invited you to debate. What are you afraid of? You cannot debate a person on a fair playing field? You cannot debate him unless you can stack the deck and control the rules?

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    mathetes »Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:48 pm

    • Alockslee » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:30 pm
    wowie » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:28 pm
    -------------------------------------------------
    In Response: since we can't trust your source Holding to be accurate, please post the original pages he quotes and then show form a court action where any of this was ruled as law in the US as you claim.

    Putting up a citation is NOT explaining it, you simply went and posted Holding who I already proved makes blanket unproved conclusions completely unsupported and not in anyway valid to use in this challenge.
    --------------------------------

    Ok, Alockslee, you've been talking a lot of smack. James Patrick Holding himself has challenged you to a debate at TheologyWeb.com (where he holds all his online debates).

    No excuses now. Here's your chance to silence the founder of Tekton Apologetics Ministry once and for all. You've made your accusations about him and his work; now it's time to meet his challenge and back them up.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: If Holding wants to debate me he will do it on my terms. It will be according to the rules established at the outset on the venue I choose, not him. He can contact me if he is willing to do so and must at the outset agree in writing prior to the start that he will abide by the rules and that upon completion that his prior assent to this debate will result in an outcome based upon those rules.

    So if he is interested then it will be on my terms or not at all, I don't trust your side to play by the rules since you haven't in this thread. So tell you friend if he wants to debate the essay he should contact the author, if he simply wants to try to sucker me into something I don't play games in that manner.

    So, my way or the highway, and I chose venue, rules and make the final determination on all material, I follow the rules, you don't, I make the rules and if he is willing he will follow them to do this.

    He will of course have to agree to the terms in writing prior to the start and if I determine any violations of the rules have been committed I will show where it has happened and he loses immediately, case closed. This will assure he doesn't play any games and I will insure i am treated fairly.

    Got it, good, my rules, my venue, I am the final judge. So as you put it no excuses let him come to me and you can watch the final outcome.

    If he can maintain a civil demeanor I will afford him the same, but there will be only the venue I choose and there will not be any other discussions, nor locations covering this or reporting on it.
    TFR

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Gibbons Family-you need to stop posting-you take message boards far too seriously!

    Everyone enjoys a spirited debate. God Himself knows that we are bettered when we hear the opinions of others.

    If you want the solitude of your "all things chrsitian-all opinions are only mine" then pray and converse with yourself in your closet

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:48 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    • Alockslee » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:30 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0
    wowie » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:28 pm
    -------------------------------------------------
    In Response: since we can't trust your source Holding to be accurate, please post the original pages he quotes and then show form a court action where any of this was ruled as law in the US as you claim.

    Putting up a citation is NOT explaining it, you simply went and posted Holding who I already proved makes blanket unproved conclusions completely unsupported and not in anyway valid to use in this challenge.
    --------------------------------

    Ok, Alockslee, you've been talking a lot of smack. James Patrick Holding himself has challenged you to a debate at TheologyWeb.com (where he holds all his online debates).

    No excuses now. Here's your chance to silence the founder of Tekton Apologetics Ministry once and for all. You've made your accusations about him and his work; now it's time to meet his challenge and back them up.

    (Since I don't know in which forum you are currently active, I'll post this where I hope you'll find it.)

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:41 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Bob,

    I didn't say the Germans weren't Christians by and large. I'm saying the movement to eradicate Jews was the product of the idea of Aryan ethnic purity and the racial policies they inspired. The 3rd Reich was simp[ly not a Christian movement.

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:37 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Bob,

    I have to take issue with your Translation:

    We are Christian thugs. We are the majority, therefore we must always have our way. Because we are Christians we don't care about anyone but ourselves.

    Europe is not like the United States. You have countries like Italy and Poland that are 90-95% Catholic. It is ingrained in their culture to express their love of God as it is to make keilbasa and spaghetti. It is a part of their national identity and if that means the tiny minority has to put up with crucifixes, so be it. It is an integral part of the cultural, and not just religious, expression of the country they've made their adopted home.

    It simply isn't bullying or tyranny when there is almost 100% consensus on leaving the crucifixes where they've been for generations. The entire nation isn't obligated to change it's symbols because someone who asked to be admitted as a new member of that society has a problem with those symbols. It is the new citizen who needs to adapt to the ways of his new country, not the other way around. Otherwise, you have a tyranny of the minority, which is worse.

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:34 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    Gibbons Family »Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:02 am
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: So you are in favor of religious fanatics BURNING crosses on children? That comes under the heading of torture and to support it your must also be in favor of preventing the national database among the sbc to allow pedophiles to remain hidden among their ranks.

    The Establishment Clause is another protection against your kind of theocracy movement and we must be ever vigilant against the infiltration of fascism under the guise of religion daily. Your kind doesn't want acceptance, you want total control. If you wanted acceptance you wouldn't be so active in forcing your ideology on the rest of the country who doesn't want it and CERTAINLY doesn't need the indoctrination as we have already seen what it does to those infected.

    I would like to see you first prove a basis for your beliefs using the terms of the challenges already posted on this site and you must first prove them in order to pursue this nonsense you depend upon. Paul commanded you to do it and to ignore or delay in proving it only shows you can't!

    TFR

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:23 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    All I know is that St. Paul said "I preach Christ crucified." Apparently, so do others in Italy and to me, that's a good thing.

  • Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:59 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 6

    "And is suspect the Jews are astute enough to know that thier murders came at the hands of Germans who just happened to be Christian. They were persecuted by an ethnic group, not a faith group."

    Sorry, but you are not fooling anyone. The holocaust murderers were all Christians, and your dishonesty can't change that fact.

  • Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:57 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    "Christians should flag the most vile posters on sight and without further comment"

    Nobody loves censorship more than the cowardly Christians.

    Mr. "Gibbons Family", you should take your censorship to North Korea. You don't belong here.

  • Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:53 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 6

    "The crucifix is not a symbol of Catholicism, absurd."

    Really? Everyone knows the crucifix is a symbol of all Christian death cults, including the Catholic death cult.

  • Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:52 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    bully: To force one's way aggressively or by intimidation.

    What a perfect description of Christians.

  • Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:49 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    "it is a bit naive to think that they should alter two thousand years of tradition to appease the sensibilities of minority"

    Translation: We are Christian thugs. We are the majority, therefore we must always have our way. Because we are Christians we don't care about anyone but ourselves.

    There's a special name for these Christians who like to bully everyone else, but I can't use that word here unfortunately.

  • Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:31 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    The crucifix is a symbol of docility? Where did that come from?
    The crucifix is not a symbol of Catholicism, absurd.

  • Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:02 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    When I have time, I post comments about the articles, but I don't often have time to respond to others' comments.

    gem_of_tki said,

    "How well is the Free Exercise Clause working for John Freshwater?"

    The issues in that case are:

    Does this teacher have the right to teach whatever he wants to teach or does he have to follow the subject material provided to him by his employer?

    Does this teacher have the right to assault students?

    Neither of these issues has anything to do with the First Amendment.

    In discussing issues, irrational and unsound minds frequently use illogical or inaccurate points to arrive at a predetermined and preposterous conclusion.

    The case of John Freshwater has nothing to do with the Free Exercise Clause.

    A teacher is an employee and must teach what they're told to teach in the manner in which they are told to teach it. If they don't like teaching lies, they should withdraw their services and go teach elsewhere.
    In most cases, it's against the law for a teacher to assault a student, and any teacher found guilty of assaulting a student should be appropriately punished.

    TGF
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "For the Christians... Christ is clear... we are not to throw pearls among swine.... when is enough going to be enough in exhorting the heathens here?" jar1961

    Christians should flag the most vile posters on sight and without further comment, rather than encouraging their disruptive behavior (ie. repeatedly posting obscene comments and flagging fellow Christians), by constantly arguing with them over the same truths in God's Word whom they ridicule.

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    "In America, we have thank goodness, something called the Free Exercise Clause in our Bill of Rights."

    How well is the Free Exercise Clause working for John Freshwater?

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:58 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    In America, we have thank goodness, something called the Free Exercise Clause in our Bill of Rights.

    TGF
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "For the Christians... Christ is clear... we are not to throw pearls among swine.... when is enough going to be enough in exhorting the heathens here?" jar1961

    Christians should flag the most vile posters on sight and without further comment, rather than encouraging their disruptive behavior (ie. repeatedly posting obscene comments and flagging fellow Christians), by constantly arguing with them over the same truths in God's Word whom they ridicule.

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:28 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    I think the related article written by Albert Mohler is very timely.

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:07 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Whenever Christians argue that a symbol of their religion really ISN'T a symbol of their religion (which is done nearly every time Christians want the government to promote their religion, so they try to "disclaim" the religious symbolism), it always reminds me of Peter denying Christ.

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:25 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 3

    I think when you decide to live in a country that is over 90% Catholic, it is a bit naive to think that they should alter two thousand years of tradition to appease the sensibilities of minority, most of whom are immigrants.

    And is suspect the Jews are astute enough to know that thier murders came at the hands of Germans who just happened to be Christian. They were persecuted by an ethnic group, not a faith group.

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:07 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 6

    I don't think Jewish students, who had ancestors who were murdered by Christians, would appreciate seeing the symbol of the Christian death cult (the crucifix which is also a symbol of an execution device) in their public school classroom. This is why in America, we have thank goodness, something called the Establishment Clause in our Bill of Rights.

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