ELCA Head Reports 'Painful Days'

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

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The head of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America reported that 40 positions may be cut as the denomination struggles financially.

"These have been very painful days in this organization," ELCA Presiding Bishop the Rev. Mark S. Hanson told the Church Council Friday, according to the ELCA News Service.

Lutherans are looking to reduce their 2010 budget by 10 percent due to decreased giving over the past 30 years, the economic downturn, and the decision by some congregations to withhold funding.

Several congregations have decided to cut all funding to the ELCA following the controversial vote in August by the denomination's chief legislative body to approve a resolution allowing noncelibate gays and lesbians to be ordained.

"What the ELCA vote has accomplished is to make each congregation even more autonomous. That independence frees us to choose who we work with in mission and who we support financially," pastors at Hope Lutheran Church in Fargo, N.D., said last month. "To that end Hope Lutheran's leadership has suspended all financial support to the ELCA and will develop a process to define who our mission partners will be. We will support these partnerships with direct financial support."

Lutheran CORE (Coalition for Renewal), an association of conservative congregations within the ELCA, has urged congregations and individuals to direct funding away from the national church body.

"With our consciences captive to the Word of God, Lutheran CORE must oppose the decisions of the 2009 ELCA Churchwide Assembly," the renewal group states.

Some churches are weighing the decision or have already voted to leave the denomination. Community Church of Joy, a megachurch in Glendale, Ariz., voted to sever ties, saying the direction the ELCA has chosen is not consistent to where God has called their church.

The recent actions compounded with the denomination's continuing decline in membership and giving have prompted a call for stronger leadership.

"However one analyzes the contributing factors, the consequences are the same: Mission is diminished. Unity is strained. Lives are impacted. And faith is tested," Hanson said, as reported by the ELCA News Service.

"I can say with all confidence that this church has never in my nine years as presiding needed the strong leadership of the Church Council as much as we need leadership from you now."

The ELCA is the largest Lutheran denomination in the country. Membership in 2008 was at 4.6 million in 2008, down from 4.7 the year before. Total giving in 2008 dipped by 2.64 percent to over $2.7 billion.

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believer »

Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:13 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

real mickey, you have absolutely no biblical support that shows in anyway that God created people homosexual and in fact you have no valid scientific evidence to prove people are born homosexual!! So you need to stop giving people permission to live in sin based on your opinion that you have no valid support for!!
MickeyC »

Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:51 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

real mickey, the only one who may indeed be keeping others out of heaven and the Kingdom of God may very well be you as you continue to give people permission to live in sin and stay separated from God since they choose not to repent of their sin and turn to God by putting their complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of Christ alone. And if they indeed are saved you keep them from being effectively used of God by giving them permission to live in sin. And for those who buy into your false beliefs who are unsaved, if they were to die in that condition would be eternally separated from God for eternity.

False believer ,the only one who may indeed be keeping others out of heaven and the Kingdom of God may very well be you as you continue to lie to people and tell them to deny who God made them whis is a sin and keep them separated from God since they choose not to accept the way God made them as you have done. And if they indeed are saved you keep them from being effectively used of God by telling them lies based on your life of hate and sin. And for those who buy into your false beliefs who are unsaved, if they were to die in that condition would be eternally separated from God for eternity not that you care because your heart is black with hatred for God. You still blame God for how he made you. Fortunately there are a number of us here to tell the truth and keep you from ruining other people's live like you have ruined your own.
believer »

Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:23 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

real mickey, the only one who may indeed be keeping others out of heaven and the Kingdom of God may very well be you as you continue to give people permission to live in sin and stay separated from God since they choose not to repent of their sin and turn to God by putting their complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of Christ alone. And if they indeed are saved you keep them from being effectively used of God by giving them permission to live in sin. And for those who buy into your false beliefs who are unsaved, if they were to die in that condition would be eternally separated from God for eternity.
MickeyC »

Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:18 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 2

"mickey, no one needs to lie about you as you do all that on your own and Matthew does seem to be speaking about you quite well in that verse!!"

Poor believer knows he's wrong and continues to follow the wrong path. It's obvious that Matthew was speaking directly about people like you. Here are few more verses where Matthew must have had you in mind:

Matthew 23:13 ¶But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
TLChild »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:35 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

It is time for seperation. We are at the end of Earth's history as we know it; and therefore, the angels of Yahweh are calling His sheep out of these churches led by wolves. The Bible says that everything works for the good of those who love and seek Yahweh. Romans 8:28-29: "We are assured and know that [God being a partner in their labor] all things work together and are [fitting into a plan] for good to and for those who love God and are called according to [His] design and purpose. For those whom He foreknew [of whom He was [aware and [loved beforehand], He also destined from the beginning [foreordaining them] to be molded into the image of His Son [and share inwardly His likeness], that He might become the firstborn among many brethren."

Many people believe that what the ELCA did was terrible, which it was; nevertheless, I believe that Yahweh allowed the truth to come out for His TRUE Children in order for them to leave that church. TRUE sheep do not need to be among wolves, because they will have a terrible end. Therefore, at the end of the day, no matter how bad or sad things may seem, it always work out for the children of Yahweh. If I bump my toe, I believe it is for my good, because that bump could have held me up from something even terrible down the road. If traffic holds me up, I never become upset, because I could have been in an accident down the road, and therefore, Yahweh was just making me wait and keeping me safe. Therefore, Christians should always look at the bright side of any situation and try to realize that Yahweh was trying to protect them when it appears that things are not going well or according to plan--trust, IT IS ALWAYS FOR OUR GOOD. Therefore, Christians will ALWAYS win.

Matthew 13

36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
believer »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:31 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

mickey, no one needs to lie about you as you do all that on your own and Matthew does seem to be speaking about you quite well in that verse!!
MickeyC »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:14 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

"reral mickey, trust me the only one you're fooling is yourself and waiting several days to respond to posts won't hide the fact you've come on CP under other IDs!!"

False believer, your need to lie about me simply shows how right I've been about you.

Boy did Matthew have you right on target:

Matthew 7:15 ¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
believer »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:30 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

reral mickey, trust me the only one you're fooling is yourself and waiting several days to respond to posts won't hide the fact you've come on CP under other IDs!!
MickeyC »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:13 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

"real mickey, this from the guy who hasn't even got the integrity to keep his same ID and thinks the rest of us can't figure out he's posted under several IDs."

False Believer, I guess all you can do in defense of your degenerate position is to lie. How can someone whose whole life been a lie use the word "integrity" with a "straight" face? Pun intended.
MickeyC »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:12 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

I guess some people put their hate above their faith.
MickeyC »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:12 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 2

"real mickey, well considering you've changed your ID several times it appears I've been correct in a majority if not all those times."

False believer, I've yet to have any ID other than this one which proves that you lie out of your cowardice just as you've lied your entire life.
MickeyC »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:04 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 3

"real mickey, it was blatantly obvious it was you, so enough with the denial!!"

Your need for it to have been me is pathetic at best. You just can't get over the fact that more and more people are telling you that you are wrong. Who else on CP do you think is me? LOL Surely you can come up with yet another lie out of your paranoia.
MickeyC »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:59 am Agree: 1 Disagree: 3

"real mickey, and a week or so ago you were real christian!!"

Nope that wasn't me but I looked up his posts and I agree with him. It just drives you crazy that other people see you for what you really are. LOL
indochristian »

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:05 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Just wondering if JESUS and his discilpes could have managed with less than a billion dollars. ????????
FullGospel »

Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:08 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 3

Scripture says that when one member of the body suffers, we all suffer. Rather than get in line with those who seek to pass judgment, I say lift our Lutheran brothers and sisters in the one body of Christ up in prayer, regardless of your Christian denomination. Peace.
Gibbons Family »

Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:56 am Agree: 6 Disagree: 4

Flagged as inappropriate. show This is Christian website available to the public. Christians and non-Christians interested in discussing issues from a Christian perspective should feel welcome and not threatened. For those who are interested in learning God's truths, I've found there is an encouraging number of genuine Christians who regularly post comments here. These believers know and follow the Bible in its entirety, not picking and choosing what scriptures they will follow and what parts of God's Will they will obey. There are also a large number of unbelievers here. Their comments, while often being inaccurate or misguided, are usually made without personal attacks. Their presence here is welcome. Unfortunately, there are about half a dozen unbelievers and apostates here who only come here to entertain themselves by disrupting Christian discussions and attacking Christians. They are not interested in 1) learning about God and the Bible; 2) discussing the news from a Christian perspective; or 3) coming to Christ. They manage to string along some brothers or sisters for many weeks and months, but this is in order to use them to trample upon God's Word, attack other good Christians, and amuse themselves. Christians - You should not encourage these ones, by constantly talking to them and giving them a soapbox to mock God, flag your fellow Christians, and discourage Christians from coming here. I urge members who have been here longer than I to flag the several most offensive posters on sight and without comment. They are only here to disrupt and not to discuss issues from a Christian perspective. TGF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For the Christians... Christ is clear... we are not to throw pearls among swine.... when is enough going to be enough in exhorting the heathens here?" jar1961 Christians should flag the most vile posters on sight and without further comment, rather than encouraging their disruptive behavior (ie. repeatedly posting obscene comments and flagging fellow Christians), by constantly arguing with them over the same truths in God's Word, whom they ridicule. hide
Gibbons Family »

Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:01 am Agree: 7 Disagree: 2

Flagged as inappropriate. show I'll just repost this flagged comment for our Christian members. After years of backroom plotting, creating and stacking exploratory committees, and winning the long-planned-for vote, it is unlikely the deviants who planned this sickening thing from the beginning will now repent from their sins of 1) committing sex acts God opposes; 2) misleading their members using lengthy brainwashing tactics; and 3) attempting to pressure the remaining members to stay in the organization, even though by doing so they would be endangering their salvation. It's bad enough there are homosexual atheists. It's stinking disgusting they've infiltrated into many churches to gradually spread their filthy ideas, and possibly ruin other peoples' lives. True Christians will unhesitatingly flee these churches bathing in apostasy and revelling in the stench of Satan's rule. Our prayers and support are with them as they make their escape. TGF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For the Christians... Christ is clear... we are not to throw pearls among swine.... when is enough going to be enough in exhorting the heathens here?" jar1961 Christians should flag the most vile posters on sight and without further comment, rather than encouraging their disruptive behavior (ie. repeatedly posting obscene comments and flagging fellow Christians), by constantly arguing with them over the same truths in God's Word, whom they ridicule. hide
Gibbons Family »

Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:01 am Agree: 5 Disagree: 2

Flagged as inappropriate. show I'll just repost this flagged comment for our Christian members. Online4Him, reading your posts are always a huge encouragement. I'm sure all your brothers and sisters here appreciate your genuine Christian devotion and the truths you post. TGF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For the Christians... Christ is clear... we are not to throw pearls among swine.... when is enough going to be enough in exhorting the heathens here?" jar1961 Christians should flag the most vile posters on sight and without further comment, rather than encouraging their disruptive behavior (ie. repeatedly posting obscene comments and flagging fellow Christians), by constantly arguing with them over the same truths in God's Word, whom they ridicule. hide
Gibbons Family »

Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:42 pm Agree: 5 Disagree: 2

Flagged as inappropriate. show To the cowardly flaggers, There are sad, pathetic souls, who can't form a point of view, and so flag comments they disagree with. And like cowards, they flag comments without claiming responsibility. If you flag posts because you disagree with them, from what I've seen, all of 'your' posts will likely get flagged - forever. Never flag and we'll get to read all the ridiculous things others say (if you disagree) or all the pearls of wisdom (if you agree) - and no matter what side you're on, you'll get to read your favorite posters' comments without having to click on "show". 1) Stop flagging and: we'll all get to read everyone's posts, good or bad. 2) Keep flagging and: all your posts will get flagged, and you'll have to click on 'show' to see your friends' posts. It's your choice. If you've been here long enough to see what happens to people who frequently flag, you'll pick #1 and never flag. If you're either new or just plain stupid (you know one of those people who never gets it, ever since they were a kid), you'll pick #2. TGF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flagged as inappropriate means inappropriate for a Christian website, not inappropriate for any website and not disagreeable to you. hide
Gibbons Family »

Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:39 pm Agree: 5 Disagree: 2

Flagged as inappropriate. show On flagging Christians on a Christian website - THIS IS a Christian website, for Christians and others to discuss events relating to Christianity and religious affairs. We are against homosexual sex acts, but we think they are entitled to talk freely without disruption on (homosexual) websites set up for that purpose. THAT is freedom of speech. Similarly, we believe that homosexuals should not come to a Christian website and flag any Christians for any reason, and give a post multiple thumbs down to try and fool us into believing that many people disagree lol. Homosexuals shouldn't come to a Christian website to attack and disrupt Christians trying to exercise their freedom of speech. I would never go to a homosexual website, give myself an offensive name, and then start flagging the homosexuals for saying things that a normal person would expect homosexuals to say to a Christian with the stupidity to come to a homosexual site to attack and disrupt them. TGF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flagged as inappropriate means inappropriate for a Christian website, not inappropriate for any website and not disagreeable to you. hide
believer »

Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:50 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

real mickey, well considering you've changed your ID several times it appears I've been correct in a majority if not all those times.
believer »

Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:14 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 2

real mickey, it was blatantly obvious it was you, so enough with the denial!!
believer »

Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:27 pm Agree: 3 Disagree: 1

real mickey, and a week or so ago you were real christian!!
Online4Him »

Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:34 am Agree: 5 Disagree: 2

GF,

Praise God; thank you for your encouraging words....Keep pressing on!

"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever" (Isaiah 40:8).
believer »

Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:14 am Agree: 5 Disagree: 2

real mickey, the only one lying here appears to be you since you're the one who has changed his ID several times!
Gibbons Family »

Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:49 pm Agree: 5 Disagree: 3

Flagged as inappropriate. show After years of backroom plotting, creating and stacking exploratory committees, and winning the long-planned-for vote, it is unlikely the deviants who planned this sickening thing from the beginning will now repent from their sins of 1) committing sex acts God opposes; 2) misleading their members using lengthy brainwashing tactics; and 3) attempting to pressure the remaining members to stay in the organization, even though by doing so they would be endangering their salvation. It's bad enough there are homosexual atheists. It's stinking disgusting they've infiltrated into many churches to gradually spread their filthy ideas, and possibly ruin other peoples' lives. True Christians will unhesitatingly flee these churches bathing in apostasy and revelling in the stench of Satan's rule. Our prayers and support are with them as they make their escape. TGF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For the Christians... Christ is clear... we are not to throw pearls among swine.... when is enough going to be enough in exhorting the heathens here?" jar1961 Christians should flag the most vile posters on sight and without further comment, rather than encouraging their disruptive behavior (ie. repeatedly posting obscene comments and flagging fellow Christians), by constantly arguing with them over the same truths in God's Word, whom they ridicule. hide
Gibbons Family »

Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:48 pm Agree: 6 Disagree: 2

Flagged as inappropriate. show Online4Him, reading your posts are always a huge encouragement. I'm sure all your brothers and sisters here appreciate your genuine Christian devotion and the truths you post. TGF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For the Christians... Christ is clear... we are not to throw pearls among swine.... when is enough going to be enough in exhorting the heathens here?" jar1961 Christians should flag the most vile posters on sight and without further comment, rather than encouraging their disruptive behavior (ie. repeatedly posting obscene comments and flagging fellow Christians), by constantly arguing with them over the same truths in God's Word, whom they ridicule. hide
believer »

Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:41 pm Agree: 4 Disagree: 3

real mickey, this from the guy who hasn't even got the integrity to keep his same ID and thinks the rest of us can't figure out he's posted under several IDs.
Online4Him »

Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:02 pm Agree: 9 Disagree: 2

"With our consciences captive to the Word of God, Lutheran CORE must oppose the decisions of the 2009 ELCA Churchwide Assembly," the renewal group states.

Amen! . . . . "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven" (Psalm 119:89).
MickeyC »

Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:19 pm Agree: 3 Disagree: 8

"real mickey, Christ told His disciples where ever they refuse to receive the Truth to leave that place and wipe the dust off their feet as they leave. That appears to be what is indeed happening in this denomination! It's not a matter of hate it is a matter of staying true to God's truths as found in His inerrant Word!"

No, it's a matter of hate and lies, much like the entire foundation of your life.
believer »

Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:05 pm Agree: 10 Disagree: 2

real mickey, Christ told His disciples where ever they refuse to receive the Truth to leave that place and wipe the dust off their feet as they leave. That appears to be what is indeed happening in this denomination! It's not a matter of hate it is a matter of staying true to God's truths as found in His inerrant Word!
cjconner »

Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:47 pm Agree: 10 Disagree: 2

After the votes, the mainline media put out articles right away with titles like, "ELCA Split Unlikely"- well, they were obviously wrong. Hanson tried to create the perception in the press, but the movement to leave the ELCA is so strong, for the first time he failed.

This really is only the beginning. Most Churches won't take this issue up until their annual meetings in January, and then it will take another 6 months after that for decisions to be made. Look for the real body count around July or August 2010.

The ELCA has an average congregation size of 110. The churches that are leaving now are its largest and strongest. I think there will be little left to the denomination when all is said and done.

The denomination has had the same national budget for 20 years- about 80 million dollars- through all the inflation and even in economic prosperity. I think we will see it cut to about 60-65 million by this time next year, and probably down to 45-50 million the year or two following that.

Going against the Word of God is the path of destruction.
jar1961 »

Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:23 pm Agree: 7 Disagree: 2

what did they expect

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