WASHINGTON – One of America’s pre-eminent evangelical leaders recently reasserted that Mormons are not Christians during an online debate with a well-known Mormon author.
Dr. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, argued that Mormonism cannot be considered part of the Christian faith because it rejects historic Christianity.
“We are not talking here about the postmodern conception of Christianity that minimizes truth,” Mohler wrote. “We are not talking about Christianity as a mood or as a sociological movement. We are not talking about liberal Christianity that minimizes doctrine nor about sectarian Christianity which defines the faith in terms of eccentric doctrines.
“We are talking about historic, traditional, Christian orthodoxy,” the theologian stated.
Mohler, who often represents the Christian voice on shows such as CNN’S “Larry King Live” and Fox’s “The O’Reilly Factor,” pointed out that Mormons reject one of Christianity’s central tenets – the Trinity. Instead of believing in one God in three Persons, Mormons believe in many gods.
Moreover, followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believe Joseph Smith Jr. is the first latter-day prophet who restored the original Christian church in the 19th century in America. They believe the entire structure of Christian orthodoxy affirmed by the post-apostolic church is corrupt and false.
Thus, Mormons reject the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed – which are based on the Bible and were agreed upon by the ancient Christian churches as statements that true believers should affirm.
In addition, the Book of Mormon, although about Jesus Christ, contains a different Jesus than traditional Bibles who is “not the only begotten Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, or the one through whose death on the cross we can be saved from our sins,” wrote Mohler.
“Without doubt, Mormonism borrows Christian themes, personalities, and narratives,” the evangelical theologian explained.
“Nevertheless, it rejects what orthodox Christianity affirms and it affirms what orthodox Christianity rejects. It is not Christianity in a new form or another branch of the Christian tradition. By its own teachings and claims, it rejects that very tradition.
“Mormonism is not Christianity by definition or description,” Mohler declared.
Orson Scott Card, the defending Mormon science fiction writer and former Mormon missionary, challenged Mohler by asking, “Who Gets to Define ‘Christian’?” in his rebuttal blog essay.
“Dr. Mohler does not get to speak for all Christians. Nor does he get to speak for all English-speakers,” Card wrote. “The ordinary meaning of the word ‘Christians’ definitely includes Mormons; and when you say Mormons are not Christians, most would take that to mean that Mormons ‘do not believe in the divinity of Christ,’ which would be flat wrong.”
In terms of Mormon’s rejection of Christian orthodoxy, Card contends the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed and others are not derived through revelation from God but through debate and political argument by man. Continue >>
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said cgmorris in the post below mine....
" It is DISHONEST and un-christian like for any other Christian religion or faith to proclaim that another (which believes in Jesus Christ) is not Christian."
This is a hypocritical stance. I have been told by Mormons that I am an "Apostate", despite that I am a practicing Orthodox Christian, who believes in Jesus Christ and of salvation by grace, and the good news of the Bible. Jesus Christ is my judge, and there is only one Jesus, the historical Jesus who is the son of man, and who's father and him are one and the same. In whose book am I an "apostate"?
Orthodox Christians do not concern themselves with being rewarded for their faith... faith itself in the fullness of love in Christ is reward enough! if we take care of todays calling, the future will take care of itself... thats what faith is about, BELIEF, not knowledge. Its not our matter to focus on specifics of afterlife reward, or details of personal glory or attaining godhood.
I discerned Mormonism and "took on the discussions", and weighed it very seriosuly for my life in 1994-1995. While I think Mormons are good people, have good family lives, are good at taking care of each other, and set a good example at many things-- refuse alcohol and tobacco-- all good things-- It was the Mormon theology and cosmology that struck me as cult like: It humanizes God, and deifies man, in that man can become like our God-- I felt it unnecessary (and dangerous) to entertain the world view of our God as a potential peer through our efforts, which, if a man thinks himself to be achieving, gives rise to great pride while still here in this life. Only from pride can come the belief that "our Jesus is better than your Jesus", which is a commonly held Mormon epithet, albeit unspoken, but universally believed within Mormonism. From all my studies and readings, pride is not a christian concept, in fact, pride and humility are diametric. Pride is competative and comparative in nature -- its a devils game.
It feels like Mormonism is using the Bible to put the face of respectability and gain mainstream acceptance for its beliefs, rather direct hearts solely towards the Bible. Instead of receiving their own godhood and rewarding them with their celestial glory, Jesus may decide to show them to their personal tool sheds to live in, to learn humility first.
+ wally
It is absurd to deny any person or set of religous beliefs or faith which believes in Jesus Christ as their Savior that they are not Christian.
Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ is a Christian. It is DISHONEST and un-christian like for any other Christian religion or faith to proclaim that another (which believes in Jesus Christ) is not Christian.
Up to this point in my life no one has been able to adequately explain what "Traditional Orthodox Christianity" is or it's doctrines. Because all that really matters in this discussion is wether or not the doctrines are founded in scripture or not. I have studied the Bible and can tell you without a doubt that "Mormon" doctrine is founded in the Bible. Someone asked the prophet Joseph Smith once do "Mormon"s believe in the Bible?", it is interesting and ironic what his response was.
One thing I thought was odd about "Traditonal Orthodox Christianity" is the acceptance of the creeds as scriptural. Which also contradicts the proclaimation that scriptures are the source of the doctrines.
The source of Mormon's (members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) beliefs and doctrines are "purely" from the Scriptures. They believe that the "Gospel" is not of man such as "Traditional Orthodox Christianity" but comes from those who have been AUTHORIZED by Heavenly Father which are known to be prophets of God. Not something that has been passed down by tradition and has been tainted by man over 2000 years.
It is interesting to note that the "Traditional Orthodox" Jews rejected Christ and His message because it did not follow their traditions. He was stoned for it several times for "blasphemy". This ironic because blasphemy is when someone who does not have authority from God, speaks for Him, in His name, and changes His Law. Anyone who usurps authority in this manner is in danger of the judgement. It is ironic that the real blasphemers were the "Tradional Orthodox" proffessors who don't have any real authority.
If you want to check out my dissertation and a debate I had, arguing for Mormonism as a denomination within Christianity
email me at
joze14rock@yahoo.com
Saved for him...TRUTHANDJUSTICE...The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are one and the same...duh. I was answering a mormon question about where it appears in the bible I said that it doesn't that is why protestants rely on the Nicene Creed/Council of Constantinople.Show me in the bible where it explains the trinity lol As for your question about saints refer to http://www.catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp
Christianity is not a religion, it is a way of life. It is a life living for Jesus Christ and giving up of your own life for Him.
That goes for Mormon or Roman Catholic religions. I want someone to show me in the Bible where it says you have to be a roman catholic in order to go to Heaven. Jesus never said that you need to be catholic. He never even spoke of religion, he spoke of following Him in order to go to the Father.
Even catholics aren't christian, they pray to dead people...saint matthew, saint frances..mary...etc...thinking that these saints will bring them closer to God which is not true.
We as a generation have to be speaking more about how God is a God of Love not of religion.
TRUTHANDJUSTICE...The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are one and the same.
No where in the bible is the concept of the trinity explained. Evangelicals believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one in the same. In genesis we read that God created man in his own image. Not sure how God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost can be one in the same if we have been created in their image...fair question...I guess most protestants don't question it anymore than they do certain holidays (All Saints day (halloween), St. Pat's Day, St. Valentine's Day, who decided the date for Christmas etc......) Anybody who does any real research into Christianity finds answers in the Catholic Church.
No where in the bible is the concept of the trinity explained. Evangelicals believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one in the same. In genesis we read that God created man in his own image. Not sure how God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost can be one in the same if we have been created in their image...fair question...I guess most protestants don't question it anymore than they do certain holidays (All Saints day (halloween), St. Pat's Day, St. Valentine's Day, who decided the date for Christmas etc......) Anybody who does any real research into Christianity finds answers in the Catholic Church.
LOL, it seems odd. I guess people like my e-mail address, and some don't.
I have a question. Why did DannyPoo get four thumbs up and one thumb down for giving his email address? Am I the only one who thinks this is funny?
johnjohnson, I think maybe you forgot to mention the part about the Mormon church believing that they are the one true church. I think that has a very large part in this debate.
It's amazing to me that people report that Mormons are not Christians, but do not report why with any detail. Most evangelicals argue this point based on two things: 1, Mormons do not endorse the Trinity, and 2, the Book of Mormon is added scripture.
No where in the bible is the concept of the trinity explained. Evangelicals believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one in the same. In genesis we read that God created man in his own image. Not sure how God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost can be one in the same if we have been created in their image. Further, the trinity comes primarily from the Nicean creed, developed by men (not prophets) some 400 years after Christ's death. If you have ever read the Nicean creed, it is very hard to understand. Finally, isn't interesting that the very people who reject the Book of Mormon as added scripture accept the Nicean creed as such? They don't say this in any thing they write, but they might as well.
Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. They believe that through Christ's atonement, which includes His death on the cross, all can be saved. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (not the Church of Latter Day Saints, let's get it right guys) teaches that all mankind can be saved through this atonement, and that this gift is not withheld from anyone. This is truly a gift from a loving God.
In the end, those who critically think will see that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus is the Christ, that the Book of Mormon can only be the word of God, and that He is the most loving being in the Universe. Critical thinkers will also see that those who consider Mormons a cult may be more of one themselves.... afterall, they do not believe in the biblical god head - they believe in some man made concept called the trinity. They believe in some document that was written by men 400 years after Christ. Isn't that the definition of a Cult?
Finally, let me say this. Please don't banter with me. Take the time to really research this. I did. It's helped me make up my mind on this matter. Put all your history aside for a moment and consider the possibilities. Good luck in your journey.
I always find it "interesting" when protestants use the Nicene Creed/Council of Constantinople... I can understand why the Pope made the comments he made today. Protestants, Mormons, Scientologists, New Age,....can any of them trace themselves back to the apostles? Although the mormons have come up with an interesting way to do it by seeing themselves as a lost tribe. However, historically there is ONLY one.
Forgot to reference that last verse
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 43:10
In response to DarrellSwain,
First, C.S. Lewis, or any Christian leader no matter how great, are subject to Scripture. In Orthodox Christianity, we do not submit to popular writers, we submit to Scripture and Christ. C.S. Lewis was incorrect in interpretation of that scripture. He was referencing John 10:34-35 which states:
"Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),"
I will now ask you, do you know from what scripture was Jesus quoting, and what was he trying to say? If we take it literally, then he is calling the Pharisees whom he often rebuked, "Gods" in the present tense. Were the Pharisees Gods at that time? of course not.
Jesus was quoting an old testament verse, hence why Jesus said "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came..."
Psalms 82:6 which reads
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. "
Interesting verse, and if read out of context, appears to support Mormonism. What you don't know if you don't read the context is that it is God rebuking the Judges of Israel
Lets look at the next verse:
"But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."
this was a rebuke of the Judges of Israel. It begins to become extremely clear why Jesus quotes it to the Pharisees
There is simply no justification in scripture for claiming the bible teaches you can become Gods. It can only happen if you wish to take scripture out of context.
I would simply ask that everyone in Mormonism, BELIEVE the bible, it clearly states
"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."
Before him was no God, nor shall there be any formed after him.
In response to Jessica333. This is not intended to be a personal affront to your comments but let us, in a spirit of honest and open debate, discuss these issues you have brought forward. This dialogue was begun as a result of Mitt Romney running for the President of the United States. So let me focus this response on his candidacy as I am sure many here on this website and throughout this country struggle with the same concerns concerning his religion and whether it will be a factor in his decision making abilities.
You have said Mitt Romney is "caught in a gruesome web of spiritual deception." because he believes, as you say, "that he will one day be a god of his own world." Briefly, a doctrinal turn, Christ commands and teaches, "be ye therefore perfect, even as my father in heaven is perfect" and those that attain this perfection and “overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” (Rev 3:21) Paul references that through our faith, works and finally the grace of God, we may become “joint heirs” with Christ. Finally. C.S. Lewis a popular Christian author and member of the Church of England, has repeatedly expressed his belief of our being one day “Gods.” In Mere Christianity he writes, “The command ‘Be ye therefore perfect’ is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the bible) that we were ‘gods’ and he is going to make good His words. If we let Him-for we can prevent him, if we choose-He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. This process will be long and in parts very painful, but that is what we are in for. NOTHING LESS. He meant what he said.”(pgs. 203-304) The doctrines of the kingdom, especially those of exaltation, godhood, and even the path we must walk to attain these things, are meant to be learned “line upon line, and precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.” What commonly happens when attacks are made at the church or its members, is simply that individuals will take a doctrinal point, cheapen it, and use it in a negative tone to prove a simple point. In essence, its taking a shortcut from point A to point B by picking up a tenth of the way through and dumping us on point B. We miss out on all the good scenery in between and we are left jaded and misinformed.
The doctrines should not be used to either a). endorse a candidate or b). refuse a candidate. “A gruesome web of spiritual deception” is a wonderful term, yet it more aptly applies to those who are entrenched in the debasing acts of sin. Which sin causes one to take idealogical shortcuts (rationalizations), such that 1. There is no God. 2. If there is no God there can be no law. 3. If there is no law, there is no sin. 4. If there is no sin, then no Redeeming Christ. And on. And on down a slippery slope.
Let us judge men by the content of their character and their ability to make rational, inspired decisions and leave the doctrines out for another topic and another blog.