After weeks of prayer and intense campaigning on both sides, Californians passed a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage.
The measure overturns the state Supreme Court decision in May that legalized gay marriage.
Supporters of Proposition 8 had claimed victory Tuesday night as numbers played out in their favor. But opponents said it was too soon to make the call as many votes remained uncounted.
As of Wednesday morning, however, Prop 8 passed 52 percent to 47.9 percent. Although with nearly 96 percent of the votes tallied, there are absentee and provisional ballots still uncounted, reports indicate the 5 percent margin will be difficult to overcome, according to The Mercury News.
"Just over a month ago, we were behind in the polls, and things did not look good for traditional marriage," said Jim Garlow, pastor of Skyline Church in San Diego. "Then we began our 40 days of prayer and fasting, and began hosting rallies that were simulcast to churches all over the state, and we began to see the tide turn. Tonight, we are just grateful for this result, not just as evidence of the people’s decision on marriage, but as evidence of God’s will and plan for marriage and families."
Leading into the polls on Tuesday, a CBS News poll had shown the "Yes on 8" campaign leading only by a 48-45 percent margin and opponents had out-raised the amendment supporters in a last-minute fundraising blitz in Hollywood.
Christians and traditional marriage supporters, however, collected their spiritual strength and organized massive prayer rallies and 40-day campaigns in an effort to defend marriage as between one man and one woman. They also raised an impressive $40 million and the support of over 100,000 volunteers to the traditional marriage cause.
According to Ron Prentice, chairman of ProtectMarriage.com, the "Yes on 8" campaign was the "single largest, most powerful grassroots movement in the history of American ballot initiative campaigns."
"This is a great day for marriage," said Prentice. "The people of California stood up for traditional marriage and reclaimed this great institution. We are gratified that voters chose to protect traditional marriage and to enshrine its importance in the state constitution. We trust that this decision will be respected by all Californians."
Thousands of same-sex couples married since the May ruling. Whether their unions are still valid will be resolved in court, legal experts say.
One lesbian couple, who was the first to be married in Los Angeles County, plans to announce a lawsuit arguing that the proposition is unconstitutional, according to The Mercury News.
While similar marriage amendments were being voted on in Arizona and Florida, California drew wide attention as many believed it would set a precedent for other states.
With Tuesday's win, Christians are optimistic.
"We were able to draw a line in the sand on this issue, and we hope this helps to protect the definition of marriage across the nation," said Garlow. "Personal and religious freedoms were at stake, as well as our children’s education, and we are grateful for all the prayers, volunteers and financial support from those who stood with us from outside the state of California."
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"my personal conclusion. you as a group have an overwhelming fear of punishment. that fear translates into anything associated with homosexuality."
Are you serious? That kind of logic doesn't even make sense. There's only one thing I fear: Falling so far from God that the line between heaven and hell becomes blurred, and I cross that line and lose my soul. Other than that, I fear nothing.
feet,
Fear? What does fear have to do with Gods Word explicitly pointing out that homosexuality is a sin?
feet, plus there are far more ways to violate God's plan for sexual intimacy than just the sexual practices of homosexuality.
feet, so is that your way of graciously bowing out of the discussion rather than admitting that marriage as designed by God is one man and one woman united as one in the sight of God for life and that sexual intimacy is reserved for the marriage bed of one man and one woman united as one in the sight of God for life through marriage?
my personal conclusion. you as a group have an overwhelming fear of punishment. that fear translates into anything associated with homosexuality.
feet, there's nothing to explain, the same way when the policeman pulls you over for speeding there's nothing he has to explain to you when he shows you the radar gun that shows how many miles over the posted speed limit you were traveling.
feet, based on your logic a person could interpret a speed limit sign in one of three ways, you must go exactly the posted speed, you cannot go any higher than the posted speed, or you cannot go any lower than the posted speed limit since to limit the interpretation to only of the three options would be reading something into it.
you didnt believe my comment about quoting without explanation?
feet, the sexual practices of homosexuality are a sin because they fall outside God's boundaries for sexual intimacy which is reserved for the marriage bed of one man and one woman united as one in the sight of God by marriage.
If the words are important, then pay attention to God,
Romans 1:24-27
24 Therefore God gave them over in the SINFUL desires of their hearts to SEXUAL IMPURITY for the DEGRADING of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator - who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to SHAMEFUL lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for UNNATURAL ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed INDECENT acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their PERVERSION.
God is clear, homosexual sex is sinful, sexual impurity, degrading, shameful, unnatural, and indecent.
Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
God said that each man is to have his own wife and each woman her own husband, to avoid sexual immorality.
1 Corinthians 7:2
But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.
feet,
Sorry; your interpretation of Scripture is more akin to the doctrines of the Nicolaitans . . .
But I do see from you're opinion, that murder and lying aren't sins. For we are to love our neighbors as ourselves.
feelfine,
You fall under your own judgement, for you interpret as you will. Unfortunately, the Scriptures still call homosexuality a sin. And define marriage as being between one man and one woman. If there is any "errant" interpretation, it is to say that it doesn't.
paul says in romans that the sons of god are led by the spirit of god.
where is your scripture that says under the new covenant we are to be led by our interpretation of the law, everything written requiring interpretation?
if, in romans, the summation of the law is the spirit direction(commandment) of love your neighbor as yourself, then the essence of every law under the new covenant is the summation. they are not seperate and apart from each other the summation of the law and the essence of each law is the same.
around this summation is how we are to be led under the new covenant.
why is it so hard for all of you, to merely read my messages?
no its the reverse, the words are very important, apparently more important to me than to you.
im the one who keeps asking for explanation how the words of the verses you quote say that homosexuality is a sin.
all of you can quote till the cows come home........but none of you can explain how the words say it.
again.........in matt 19, the important word "only" is not there. that means that a man woman one flesh relationship is one possiblity.........but not the ONLY possibility.
your whole case is wrapped around your injecting a word to give it the import that you want for the sake of your theology. and this is, not to mention the dispensation of verse 11 that you attempt to regulate with legalities for the same purpose.
and yes god's word is important, but anything written requires interpretation. the fact that you chose an interpretation and then attempt to assume to know the mind of god by saying your choice of interpretation is god's, contradicts isaiah 1 and 1cor 13.
aren't you all in unified agreement that anyone who contradicts scripture does not love god. even though this statement contradicts.................. 1kings8:39 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Forgive and act; deal with each man according to all he does, since you know his heart (for you ALONE know the hearts of all men),
ifeelfine,
You said "the fact that you would lean so heavily on your understanding of legalities in itself makes your explanation weak.'
Kinda like when you said "thepenitent - I've read it several times. You're implying that it says one man and one woman and that is not what it says. Your making something up that is not there."
I think what it is,is that you got caught in a lie, and it pissed you off. Of course you're going to talk "legalities" because you're backed into a corner you can't get out of. You think God winks at our willful sin.
Well, He doesn't. Homosexuality is a sin. Marriage is for ONE man and ONE woman, according to scriptures. If you want to argue for homosexual right to marry, do so without the Bible, because the Scriptures simply do not support your view.
"daniel paul
are you reading?"
Absolutely...and so are the others. In fact, they are posting what they are reading. They are showing from the
Bible what the Bible says (always the best way) but you are saying they are preaching to the choir. The choir, as a rule, agrees with the word of God as preached. You do not. You argue with the word of God and that word clearly posted.
Anytime you are not willing to accept the Bible as written and place arguements against it then you are not in agreement with the Bible. (Just fyi, that might keep you from being in our choir!)
Case and point:
"there is no 'only' in matt 19"
There is no 'only' on any speed limit signs. Still, you go over or too far under and you get a ticket. If the price tag says $1.00 (assuming it is right) it is understood that it is only a dollar...not 99 cents and not $1.01. You are foolish to pay more or to think you are going to get the product by paying less. Jesus said one man and one woman...period. Anything else is foolishness.
feet, so if a person no longer wants to follow a teaching or command of God they simply say that teaching or command was simply a result of the ebb and flow of shifting time and they're no longer meant to adhere to that teaching or command any longer?
Jesus said, "if you love me you will keep my commandments". By feel's definition Jesus was just a legalist and not a Christian.
Hahaha. Feet soudns like Humpty Dumpty in "Through the looking Glass" - "words mean whatever I want them to, nothing more and nothing less". He seem to think one can ignore plain meaning of the words of scripture on their face and replace it with whatever he meaning he feels led to put there. If that's the case why have the prophets write down scripte at all? Words mean something and one can't change that by trying to rationalize away such a simple concept as "legalizing". New age gnosticism, bleech.
(rather than a book of writings that pointed to his spirit)
feet, you fail to realize that (all scripture is given by the inspiration of God); it is the Holy Spirit that moved these men to pen holy writ. So, we must turn to Gods Word for instruction in righteousness; again, can you post a passage of scripture that speaks of same sex unions in a positive light?
what is of god is not determined by legalities which ebb and flow with the shifting of the times.............but by spirit.
you will regognize them them by their fruit............the fruit of the spirit.
why do keeep clingng to the idea that god put a list of legalities in the form of scripture that we were suppose to be led by, rather than a book of writings that pointed to his spirit.
daniel paul
are you reading?
feet, show the choir a passage of scripture where God redefines marriage in any other way?
"the four of you dont need to quote scripture. that is like preaching to the choir."
Yes but is the choir listening?
"Thanks for posting your testimony. It's great to read of God working so obviously. "
You're welcome. Any time! God works directly in peoples lives everyday. The problem is people don't want to see His work for what it is. We want to take credit for the good stuff and blame all the bad stuff on an 'act of God'.
God is willing to work in the life of anyone who stops leaning on their own understanding. This is why so many of the pro-gay camp are not being delivered (not to mention hundreds of other camps). They lean on their own understanding of the Bible, God, morality, marriage and the list goes on. The Bible is about keeping our lives between the lines. It's amazing how fewer accidents happen when people obey the rules of the road....
the four of you dont need to quote scripture. that is like preaching to the choir.
what you need to do ,which you either cant or refuse is explain how the words the verses that you quote say what you think they say.
there is no "only" in matt 19. and you attempt to legalize your way thru verse 11.
and you are with any spirit explanation for your understanding or any explanation thru acknowledging what god has made.
the fact that you would lean so heavily on your understanding of legalities in itself makes your explanation weak.
DP:
I've noticed that when I have clicked the 'view all' link, the flag and delete do not work.
Thanks for posting your testimony. It's great to read of God working so obviously.
I think that ifeelfines bible says
"In the begining God created them male, female, male and male, female and female, transgendered, or whatever man wants. And for this reason a man/men/woman/women, will leave his/their/her mother/mothers and/or father/fathers and cleave to his/their/her wife/wives/husband/husbands/partners/lovers, etc, etc and those two, three, or how ever many they desire will become one."
Ya think?
NOT.
And for the rest of you homosexuals, let me quote the beginning of that scripture as well.
"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"
God created man and woman in the beginning. The phrase "for this cause" translates "on account of" or "because of this".
Meaning that since God created man and woman, because of this a man will leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife.
Anyone who says that marriage includes homosexuals knows absolutely nothing about the scriptures, and lives and propigates a lie right from Satan himself.
ifeelfine,
The scriptures say "5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"
Twain: Two...one man and one woman.
Wife: Singular. One woman.
A man: Singular. One man.
Any questions?
Delete and flag are not working for me tonight. I guess the system thinks somethings are worth repeating! I tried to get out how the site views " and ' from MS Word. I thought I'd check my spelling for a change. :-)
"DP: Did you get remarried?"
Ah, here we go again.... Yep. Even Jesus said divorce was allowed because of the wickedness of our hearts and 1Cor talks about remarriage under certain conditions.
My first wife left 13 times in 14 years of marriage. Sometimes she took the children and sometimes without. One time she just disappeared for 3 days with the children not knowing if she was dead or alive. The oldest was in still in elementary school at the time. Still, each time I worked to restore the relationship (even though there had been 3 affairs on her part). After all, Jesus forgives me for all the junk I pull. Where would I come off divorcing her?
The last time she left the church tried to help her but she would have no part in it. She turned her back on God, me and the children. She refused to even tell the church why she was leaving. Matthew 18 says that kind of person is to be treated as an unbeliever. 1 Cor 7 (if memory serves) talks about an unbeliever who has chosen not to live with you and the right to remarry.
Do I recommend divorce? No. Did I seek divorce? No. In our country she can do that all by herself. Still, the Bible is clear. Also, the Bible says not to seek a wife. I didnâ
"DP: Did you get remarried?"
Ah, here we go again.... Yep. Even Jesus said divorce was allowed because of the wickedness of our hearts and 1Cor talks about remarriage under certain conditions.
My first wife left 13 times in 14 years of marriage. Sometimes she took the children and sometimes without. One time she just disappeared for 3 days with the children not knowing if she was dead or alive. The oldest was in still in elementary school at the time. Still, each time I worked to restore the relationship (even though there had been 3 affairs on her part). After all, Jesus forgives me for all the junk I pull. Where would I come off divorcing her?
The last time she left the church tried to help her but she would have no part in it. She turned her back on God, me and the children. She refused to even tell the church why she was leaving. Matthew 18 says that kind of person is to be treated as an unbeliever. 1 Cor 7 (if memory serves) talks about an unbeliever who has chosen not to live with you and the right to remarry.
Do I recommend divorce? No. Did I seek divorce? No. In our country she can do that all by herself. Still, the Bible is clear. Also, the Bible says not to seek a wife. I didnâ
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ifeelfine, the difference is that by supporting laws that allow for same-sex marriage you also give your approval to homosexual couples violating God's design for not only marriage, but for sexual intimacy as well.
ifeelfine, Matthew 19:5, "and He also said; For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh." How does this not make it clear that God's design for marriage is one man and one woman united as one in God's sight for life?
ifeelfine, but it will not solve the problems that lead to divorce, so what is the point of making divorce illegal if it doesn't solve the problem?
believer: If there were a law against it, wouldn't there be fewer divorces (ie none)? How is that different than legislating against "gay marriage?"
thepenitent - I've read it several times. You're implying that it says one man and one woman and that is not what it says. Your making something up that is not there.
ifeelfine, if you could convince me that a law could end the problem of divorce in our country I would 100% support passage of such a law. But the problem is divorce is not a problem it is the result or consequence of a problem. I've not heard of anyone who got a divorce because things were great in their marriage and family.
ifeelfine, I have never said that we are to take everything in the Bible literally. What I have said is that the Bible in its' original manuscripts is the God-breathed, inerrant, plenary, Word of God, in other words it is literally the Word of God. Plus, if you remember I am the person who shares via a former college professor that the Bible says what it means and means what it says, but the Bible doesn't always say what it means or mean what it says. But let me make myself perfectly clear God's design for marriage is clearly spelled out in the Old and New Testament alike and most importantly stated by Christ Himself.
ifeelfine, if you believed in the inerrancy of the Scriptures you would not be in favor of same-sex marriage. God clearly states without error that marriage is one man and one woman united as one in the sight of God for life. He offers no alternatives or options in this matter.
Those who divorce are in the same boat as homosexuals. They are both penalized. Divorcees have to spend lots of money to get the divorce, if there's kids involved then there's visitation rights, child support, etc, and also the case of alimony in many divorces.
So, like homosexual marriages, while it is not "illegal", it is still looked down upon, and also penalized in of it's own rights.
ifeelfine72,
Polygamy is something that had become culturally acceptable but God never instituted it. Can you post a passage which states otherwise? Sorry, but same sex unions are NEVER spoken of in Scripture in a positive light; period.
He sure did. Right there in the book of Matthew. You ought to read it sometime.
believer: I believe in the Bible is inerrent - I just don't believe its to be taken literally . . . how many times must I say that? You continually twist what I say - it makes me think that you aren't so interested in a discussion as you are in arguing and fighting.
Anyway, you're the one that claims to take the Bible literally - I'm only pointing out the obvious hypocrisy of that. If you believe in laws against same sex marriage then you must believe in laws against divorce. Its simple.
believer: That's not true.
thepenitent: No he didn't.
ifeelfine, God defines marriage in both the Old and New Testament alike as one man and one woman united as one in the sight of God for life, there are no options or alternatives presented by God to His design and definition of marriage. So why would any who claims to be a true believer allow the government to enact laws that would violate that standard?
ifeelfine, you're an amazing person, you do not believe in the inerrancy of God's Word and yet when it's to your advantage you go an interpret it from an inerrant perspective, such as you're doing with this divorce issue.