Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

World|Thu, Jul. 09 2009 09:28 AM EDT

Celebrate John Calvin as Inspiration Not Saint, Say Reformed Church Leaders

By Eric Young|Christian Post Reporter

As churches worldwide prepare to celebrate the 500th anniversary of the birth of Protestant Reformation leader John Calvin, leaders of a global movement of Reformed churches are calling on Christians to commemorate Calvin not as a saint but as a source of inspiration for responding to contemporary social and church-wide concerns.

“Calvin certainly was not perfect, and it is against the grain of Reformed Christians to foster personality cults,” noted the president and general secretary of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches (WARC).

“John Calvin himself would insist Soli Deo Gloria, Only to God be the Glory,” they added.

In a statement released Wednesday by leaders of the WARC, which represents 75 million Reformed church members, WARC’s president, Clifton Kirkpatrick, and general secretary, Setri Nyomi, said this coming Friday should be commemorated in a spirit of gratitude to God for how Calvin's works have inspired a movement of people committed to living faithfully for God in different contexts, and how his legacy continues to inspire believers to be true to God in responding faithfully to current challenges.

“In our world today, many are hurting because of injustice in the economy long before the current meltdown in the financial markets. This has indeed been further aggravated by the financial crisis and job losses in many countries while those who benefited from the system before continue to be bailed out,” the WARC leaders noted.

“To this Calvin stated: ‘A fair distribution can become reality if the rich do not greedily swallow up whatsoever they can get together; if they do not rack up on every side what belongs to others to satisfy their greed…,’” they added.

The Reformed church leaders also made note of other current-day issues such as the environment and Christian unity and linked them to commentaries by the 16th century theologian.

“John Calvin wrote these commentaries in the 16th century. They continue to be relevant today. That is the legacy for which we thank God,” they stated.

Born on July 10, 1509, John Calvin is credited for his profound influence over major religious figures and entire religious movements. The 16th century theologian's ideas have also been cited as contributing to the rise of capitalism, individualism, and representative democracy in the West.

“It is our hope that inspired by this (Calvin's legacy), we who live in the 21st century will also be faithful to God in our commitment to Christian unity, to confronting the forces of evil and injustice in society, and to doing everything we can to be God’s agents of transformation, making a difference in our communities,” Kirkpatrick and Nyomi stated.

“As we commemorate 500 years after the birth of Calvin, may all our actions and responses to global and community challenges today give glory to God,” they concluded.

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  • Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    As the Reformers of old called it "Doctrines of Grace", not Calvinism. I bet 99.5% of the people on here don't realize the impact Calvin had on the Protestant Reformation. Why and to who did Calvin write the Christian Institutes? What was going on during that time in history? People need to study their history period and then maybe we won't have so many jacked up perverted views on Scripture to. Look it's not about Calvin. I have often wondered since Calvin being a God fearing, God loving man, what would he think when he would meet Christians and they introduced themselves as Calvinist. I am sure the look on his face would be priceless. 1. Calvin did not put together the 5 points. 2. Calvin did not make a name for his theology and call it Calvinism. 3.His doctrine was definitively formulated and codified during the Synod of Dort (1618-1619), which rejected an alternative system known as Arminianism, which by in large most of today's church's accept and yet deny the name.

  • Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:08 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Actually, Chab-
    I trolled you and you bit. So, got an answer on baptism by immersion (traditional) vs sprinkling (came from where)?

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:53 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    My religion is superior to yours.
    My beliefs are superior to yours.
    I have the correct religion.
    You have the wrong religion.
    You worship the wrong god.
    I know the true god.
    I love god.
    You hate god.
    You are going to get tortured for and eternity.
    I will be in eternal bliss.

    Yada, yada, yada...............LOL

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "The main problem with Protestants like you is that you don't take all of scripture into account. This is why you are all divided into different sects that focus on different things."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Like the catholics do when they quote a verse out of James, but ignore Romans 3,4, and 5.

  • Chas »
    Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Actually BLACKSHOE,

    Acts 10:44-47 clearly shows Gentiles speaking in tongues without baptism and then Peter says to the Jews should we keep water baptism away from them?

    Acts 2:38 clearly shows that the gift is the gift of REGENERATION, not the gift of tongues. You notice they are not speaking in tongues?

    Blackshoe,

    The main problem with Protestants like you is that you don't take all of scripture into account. This is why you are all divided into different sects that focus on different things.

    The Catholic Faith has everything in its fullness. We take everything into account. All those scriptures you talked about I can say "Amen" to.

    There isn't anything in scripture I can't say "Amen" to, but I can't say Amen to your interpretation of the Word. My interpretation is more reasonable since my interpretation has its roots in the earliest christians and your interpretation comes from people in the last few hundred years WHO HAD NO CONNECTION TO THE APOSTLES.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "30What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;
    31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.
    32Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works." Romans 9:30-32

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:35 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Works do not make you saved, they prove you're saved.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Chas,

    " 1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
    2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
    3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
    4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
    5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
    6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
    7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered." Romans 4:1-7

    Actually, read the entire 3rd and 4th chapter of Romans. It's all about justification and salvation by faith.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Chas,

    "20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
    21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
    28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
    29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
    30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
    31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

    Romans 3:20-31

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:03 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Romans 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved". The Holy Spirit tells us through Paul that we must "confess and believe". Not confess and believe and be baptized, not confess and believe and work, or confess and believe and tithe, or confess and believe and have only a Capella worship music.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Actually, Chas, I wanted to be kind to you, so I did not state the obvious: Acts 2:38 makes it clear that you must be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit. And since early baptism was by immersion, your own reliance on traditions should make it clear that Catholics are in deep trouble...

  • Chas »
    Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Faith without works is dead,
    James 2:26
    Only thing that counts is FAITH WORKING IN LOVE,
    Gal 5:6
    Faith without love is nothing
    1 Cor 13:2

    and finally

    If you wish to enter into LIFE, keep the commandments
    Mt 19:16-17

    You must also remain in His kindness or you will be CUT OFF, So faith alone doesn't work.
    Romans 11:22

  • Chas »
    Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Sorry Blackshoe,

    Faith alone is a departure of Traditional Christianity. Faith alone was never taught by the Apostles, nor was it taught by their successor Bishops.

    We Are saved by Grace, through Faith working in Love. Real Faith is evidenced by your works, since it is God who created these works for you to cooperate with and by cooperating with these works through faith you will be saved.

    Works alone will not save you, nor will Faith alone without works. Faith with Works is true faith.

  • Chas »
    Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,

    I am not discussing that quote at all. I am talking about how you interpreted that quote and implying what you thought about it.

    What I am having a problem with is this comment you made:

    "Unfotunately, that is incorrect. As recently as about a year ago, the pope made it clear that catholics were the only "true Christians".


    To go from the Pope saying that the Orthodox were defective and Protestant denominations were not "true Churches", to YOU INTERPRETING HIM AS SAYING THAT ONLY CATHOLICS ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS are just another example of how you can't interpret anything very well.

    The POPE has NEVER said other Christians were not True Christians. He has NEVER said that only Catholics are True Christians. Period.

    You should do better with what he actually said, then what you think he said.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    hohnson: We are not in disagreement about faith resulting in works. I just want to be clear that works are not evidence of faith, nor are they a means of salvation. We are save by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. If your friend had(S) faith in the historical, Biblical Jesus, she is in heaven right now.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    hohnson,

    "What the what? Prophet and Brit are both women? I assumed you both were males. I apparently have a male-centric viewpoint."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    LOL. No, only Brit is a woman. Danpart has lowered himself to insulting, and thought that by calling me a woman he could incite some negative response, or make me cry. It's a typical tactic of his. I do find it disheartening that the other catholics on here condemn me for such tactics, but yet turn a blind eye to his insults because he is a catholic.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Since you are fact challenged;

    The Pope has never called Catholics the only "True Christians". In his most recent documents he accepts all Christians as fellow workers in the vineyard of the Lord and members of the body of Christ."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

    I hate to burst your bubble, but the reason I put those two phrases in quotations is because they are quoted from the document that the Pope put out.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show What the what? Prophet and Brit are both women? I assumed you both were males. I apparently have a male-centric viewpoint. Brit, Thank you for correcting me. I thought all British people talked like 19th century chimney sweeps, "Shine your boots, gov'nor?" and so on. hide

  • Chas »
    Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hohnson,

    Your post was very accurate. I realize you are not Catholic, and I embrace you as a brother or sister in the Lord Jesus Christ. Your post about the Pope and how he feels about other Christians is a descent portrayal. You also summed it up nicely.

    Your charitable posts show that God is working in your life and I pray that Christ will continue to illuminate His Word in your daily activities. I can see how Faith and Reason work hand in hand in your life.

    Prophet lacks reason and charity. Even if she lacked only reason, I would think she was still probably still Christian. But what she lacks more than anything is charity, which leads me to conclude she is not with Jesus as much as she thinks.

    Pray for her heart to heal whatever ails her, and that she can grow into a mature Christian.

  • Chas »
    Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,

    Since you are fact challenged;

    The Pope has never called Catholics the only "True Christians". In his most recent documents he accepts all Christians as fellow workers in the vineyard of the Lord and members of the body of Christ.

    He sees, as do I, Protestants and Evangelicals as Christians.

    Here is exactly what he did say about Churches. The Orthodox are defective because of their "Lack" of unity with one another and their lack of with the Bishop of Rome who has primacy among all bishops. He did say the Orthodox did have "Churches" because they have the same seven sacraments and Valid Apostolic succession. This is what makes them "True Churches".

    Protestants and Evangelicals on the other hand are still Christians, but their congregations cannot be called "True Churches". Protestants and Evangelicals are severely wounded because of such a departure from the fullness of the Seven Sacraments instituted by Christ and because they have not kept valid Apostolic Succession and do not share in the Apostolic Ministry of Bishop, Priest, Deacon. Because of these wounds, they cannot be called "True Churches". While they are not considered "True Churches", they still have enough Truth that is shared with us to be still called Christian and the ability to bring people to Christ. The Holy Scriptures, especially the New Testament, are something that Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants all share and are all called according to His Word.

    This is what the Pope said. Stop twisting things around.
    If you still cannot understand even this remedial language, then maybe another Forum would be better for you.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Who saves the world from sin, Jesus or another? Who is our everlasting peace admid the storms of life, Jesus or another? Who can heal our sickness and break the changes that bind us, Jesus or another?

    Who will we stand before to answer for how we lived our lifes, Jesus or another?

    Although I am sure that the prophets of old, the desciples and the apostles along with Mary are deffiantely note worthy patriarchs of our faith and there within their stories are leasons that The LORD is wanting to teach us, I doubt there is room in our relationship with Jesus to have these held as equal to and worthy of prayers and petitions.

    Yes, we can all say "Jesus is Lord!" and unite under that banner of proclamation. But its how we take that message to the lost and dying world that defines us as who we follow. Do we take it to those lost with it mixed with dead religion of any denomination? Mixed with legalistic rituals that do nothing but add weight to what should remain weightless? Or do we share the Gospel of Christ and Christ alone who offers Salvation through Faith delivered to us by His Grace wrought on Calvary? As humans we often add our own methods to things that appear as "to good to be true". We do this so that we can feel like our efforts will justify the lifes we live. And saddly this has happened through out the course of the Christian faith. God says "My grace is sufficient.." We say , "But grace is too easy, it can't be sufficient. Here Lord, let me add this too. There.. Look at what I did to help you help me.." This is a hard thing for us to learn..

    Salvation was brought to us by The sinless God-Man, Jesus Christ. The Water of Life. Not by the vessel in which the water was offered. As an empty cup will not quench one's thirst, but the water there in. When we are thirsty it isn't the cup alone we seek but the water of which we drink.

    God Bless!!

    --BDawgC

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:46 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "When Jesus said, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your being, with all your strength, and with all your mind" why did he also include "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" if it is so unimportant. In my reading of the Gospels, this kind of sentiment about loving your neighbor seems more than just an afterthought."

    It is important to love your neighbor as yourself, and if you have been saved, you will.
    The greatest love you can show a person is by warning them of the wrath to come if they do not repent.

    If we truly love the Saviour, we will do his commandments.

    True works only come after salvation and show that we have salvation.

  • Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Jolly good show, old chap."

    Number 1, I'm a chapess.

    Number 2, we really don't talk like that in England, it's a very small minority.


    "You're getting defensive."

    Not at all....

    "I knew this lady who was Catholic who died recently"

    If the woman trusted the Lord Jesus Christ alone as her personal Saviour, then she's with him now.

    "I know you wish Jesus said, "Go join the BRISTISH PENTECOSTAL CHURCH OF WHATEVER, that you go to, and pass out a bunch of misspelled pamphlets about being saved" But he didn't say that. Too bad for you."

    I don't belong to a pentecostal church and I don't hand out missplelled tracts, so that's alright, you don't need to worry.

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "He might not, but the church does I think."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That would be a catholic impossibility. I can't see the catholic church calling the pope a liar.

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show He might not, but the church does I think. hide

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    hohnson,

    It's okay. I wasn't sure quite how long ago it was. One year blurs into the next...lol.

    But the point is, is that the pope said that all "Orthodox churches were defective", "and other denominations were not true churches." That doesn't sound like he considers them "acceptable".

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show The statement you refer to was made two years ago, actually, prophet. I'm sorry I have to correct you so often. He did say that the Catholic Church was the true church, but the leader of any kind of organization is going to hype his product. That's to be expected. The church's teaching however, is that if you truly seek God and do his will and so forth, you won't go to hell. You may not be in the true church but you'll be ok. So that's a bit more ecumenical than you usually are, Mr. Prophet. hide

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Furthermore, It is my understanding that the Catholic Church does not teach its followers that the only acceptable Christian is a Catholic. They used to do that but don't anymore."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Unfotunately, that is incorrect. As recently as about a year ago, the pope made it clear that catholics were the only "true Christians".

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Blacksho, I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion. How does one express belief in or love for God or for another person? It is in the things that they do. If I confess to my wife that I love her but then go out and cheat on her and come home and slap her around, do I really love her? No, of course not. Even if I really do love her and just treat her indifferently, not helping her or consoling her or whatever, is my declaration worth anything to her. No, and she won't be fooled. If I say I love God but don't back it up with any actions, then I am only fooling other Evangelicals. I am not fooling God. If my Catholic friend had faith in God but just hoarded all her money and spent it on "End Times" DVD's, she might be declared "Saved" by certain people, but maybe not by God. When Jesus said, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your being, with all your strength, and with all your mind" why did he also include "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" if it is so unimportant. In my reading of the Gospels, this kind of sentiment about loving your neighbor seems more than just an afterthought. hide

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:38 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Hohnson: Paul tell us that neither works nor denominations will get us to Paradise. Romans 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved". So we see in that passage that there is but one way to Christ, and that is belief (faith).
    Why, then would Jesus also tell the rich young ruler to sell all he had?
    The answer is twofold: God will demand from you the thing you value more than you value Him (idolatry), and faith includes loving Him enough to follow His commands. Your Catholic friend may be in Heaven today, but if she is, it is because she put her faith in Christ alone-not because of her good works. After all, Sam Harris could sell all his goods today and give to the poor, but as he denies the very existence of God, he will not go to be with Him.

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you intended to be ironic when you write: "We are not supposed to boast" "Difference is I understand the gospel and he doesn't, plus I mean it and would tell people to do this every day." Jolly good show, old chap. I wasn't being boastful. You consistently fail to understand the point. I mentioned some details about myself to help you understand that you don't know anything about me. It's not like I told you my grade point average and how many push-ups I can do. "I copy and paste because it saves time, is there something wrong with that?" You're getting defensive. I did not mean to imply there's anything wrong with that. I do it, too. (I am about to do some) I knew this lady who was Catholic who died recently. She was very devoted to God and helping others. She tutored troubled kids and refused to take money from their parents. She once stopped for a stranger along the road who had two flat tires and went and bought him two new ones. She moved her parents into her house when they were sick and old to take care of them. I could go on and on. I'm thinking of this gospel passage: As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up, knelt down before him, and asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 Jesus answered him, "Why do you call me good? 3 No one is good but God alone. 19 You know the commandments: 'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; you shall not defraud; honor your father and your mother.'" 20 He replied and said to him, "Teacher, all of these I have observed from my youth." 21 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him, "You are lacking in one thing. Go, sell what you have, and give to (the) poor and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." Oh, Yes, she also gave all her retirement money to a poor church so they could put on a new roof. When her family told her she was crazy she said, "God will provide." Now, I realize that you "know" she's burning in hell right now, but I know differently because of the GOSPELS!!!! I know you wish Jesus said, "Go join the BRISTISH PENTECOSTAL CHURCH OF WHATEVER, that you go to, and pass out a bunch of misspelled pamphlets about being saved" But he didn't say that. Too bad for you. hide

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:26 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "If you are implying by the scriptures you copied and pasted that I am unclean or an unbeliever, you are taking my jokes too personally and are making presumptions about me when you do not know me at all."

    "I read the Gospels everyday and believe in them. I am faithfully married. I donate time and money to the needy and if you were to ask people who know me in real life they would tell you I am kind and helpful."

    We are not supposed to boast and what we give money wise is to be between us and God.

    There are lots of kind people in the world, but they are still lost.

    "A catholic priest says about the same thing you write here when giving people ashes on Ash Wednesday. "Turn away from sin and believe in the Gospel""

    Difference is I understand the gospel and he doesn't, plus I mean it and would tell people to do this every day.

    "I understand that Paul's letters were written before the Gospels were written down and are an important part of the New Testament and everything but it always surprises me that people on here always quote from Paul rather than the Gospels."

    My post was aimed at saved people aswell as the lost, we can all do with being reminded of how we are supposed to behave.

    I copy and paste because it saves time, is there something wrong with that?

    "He ate and drank with tax collectors, prostitutes, and sinners. So even though I am a sinner, it is Un-Christian of you to condemn Mathetes if he suggests that having barbecue with me would be ok."

    Yes he did, he was telling them the gospel, but he would not "hang out" with them in a social way, it was for a purpose.
    This is where comparing Scripture with Scripture comes in handy.

    "You can certainly make your argument that the Eucharist is unnecessary, but again, is it such a bad thing? Does it make you evil if you participate in it?"

    Yes, it is an abomination, Christ died once for sins, he is now at the right hand of the Father in heaven.


    "I don't see why they are so evil and you are so perfect and holy."

    I am far from perfect....

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Furthermore, It is my understanding that the Catholic Church does not teach its followers that the only acceptable Christian is a Catholic. They used to do that but don't anymore. (Some I'm sure do still) You can certainly make your argument that the Eucharist is unnecessary, but again, is it such a bad thing? Does it make you evil if you participate in it? All of the Gospels of course, talk about the Last Supper and when Jesus says,"This is my body, and so on" you can see how one might come to the conclusion that having communion as part of your religious ceremony is not completely inappropriate. Also, all indications are that the very earliest Christians did partake in such rituals. Therefore, I don't see why they are so evil and you are so perfect and holy. hide

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:29 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Brit, If you are implying by the scriptures you copied and pasted that I am unclean or an unbeliever, you are taking my jokes too personally and are making presumptions about me when you do not know me at all. I read the Gospels everyday and believe in them. I am faithfully married. I donate time and money to the needy and if you were to ask people who know me in real life they would tell you I am kind and helpful. I make jokes and give prophet a hard time because he has been rude and arrogant to me in the past. I should be kinder to him but I am a sinner just like everyone else. "The Lord Jesus Christ will never tell anyone that the catholics are right, as he has already told you they are wrong through his word. Repent and believe the gospel." A catholic priest says about the same thing you write here when giving people ashes on Ash Wednesday. "Turn away from sin and believe in the Gospel" My point being that, they have the Bible too and believe what they believe. When you imply that you exclusively and unequivocally know what the Bible is really saying and that everyone who doesn't agree with you is evil and wrong, you are being even more arrogant and self-righteous than I usually am in my posts on here. At least keep the possibility open in the back of your mind that you may not be absolutely, positively, 100% right about every little thing all of the time. ''Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.'' 2 Corinthians 6:17. I understand that Paul's letters were written before the Gospels were written down and are an important part of the New Testament and everything but it always surprises me that people on here always quote from Paul rather than the Gospels. I think Paul's message more easily fits into people's world view than Jesus' message does. The Gospels tell us that Jesus touched a lot of "unclean things" of the day, especially lepers. He ate and drank with tax collectors, prostitutes, and sinners. So even though I am a sinner, it is Un-Christian of you to condemn Mathetes if he suggests that having barbecue with me would be ok. Prophet, I'm sorry. You made a grammatical error, but it does not reflect on your intelligence or your value as a person. hide

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "I think it's fine for you to joke about that last part. In fact, I think if you lived around here, we would probably hang out and laugh at a lot of the same things. After all, you nailed the Bassomatic quote. I'm trying to remember, wasn't that Chevy Chase and Lorraine Newman on SNL? My second guess is it's from a Monty Python skit. Which is it?"



    "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" Corinthians 6:14.

    "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Ephesians 5:11.

    ''Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.'' 2 Corinthians 6:17.

    ''Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord'' Ephesians 5:19.

    ''Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.'' Philippians 4:8.

  • Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:20 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "And furthermore, even if Jesus himself came to your trailer and told you that the Catholic's were right, you would tell him he's wrong. Arguing with you then is an exercise in futility."

    You are arguing with God's word and you can never win.

    The Lord Jesus Christ will never tell anyone that the catholics are right, as he has already told you they are wrong through his word.

    Repent and believe the gospel.

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again. " - C. H. Spurgeon

    http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Thanks, I knew Chevy Chase didn't sound right. Yeah, you're right about "Dan Akroyd back when he was funny." Sad. Maybe he'll run for office in Minnesota....

    Have a good night and thanks again!

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:11 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Again, it takes a lot of patience to argue with someone who doesn't even possess a 10 year old's grasp of the English language."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Wow. Coming from anyone else, I would have been offended. But that's the kind of arguments I get. I debate Scriptures and the immature debate grammar. It's hard having a decent conversation with them.

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show It was Dan Akroyd back when he was funny and Lorraine Newman on SNL. hide

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hohnson,
    I hope you're still on here. I don't guess you ever got back to the Creationists Reach Out article, so if I may copy my post here, I'd appreciate your help:

    "Otherwise, the only people in God's favor are those Carolina barbecue guys who slow roast pigs all day. (Ok, this last thing is a joke, but I'm not making fun of anyone)
    P.S. I suppose that most would find Carolina barbecue to be a pleasing odor (with the exception of some of those PETA people) so God probably does, too."

    I think it's fine for you to joke about that last part. In fact, I think if you lived around here, we would probably hang out and laugh at a lot of the same things. After all, you nailed the Bassomatic quote. I'm trying to remember, wasn't that Chevy Chase and Lorraine Newman on SNL? My second guess is it's from a Monty Python skit. Which is it?

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Pimp My Religious Leader

    http://poleblog.polemos.net/2008/04/pimp-my-religious-leader.html

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "Oh the humility...." Unfortunately, Brit, you always take my facetious remarks rather seriously. Where's your sense of humor? "Doubt it. But, again, I'll wait for the catholics to answer. They won't, though." Again, it takes a lot of patience to argue with someone who doesn't even possess a 10 year old's grasp of the English language. Lucky for you prophet, I happen to be one of the most patient people the world has ever known. (This is a joke, Brit) So don't be too hard on the Catholics for disappearing. And furthermore, even if Jesus himself came to your trailer and told you that the Catholic's were right, you would tell him he's wrong. Arguing with you then is an exercise in futility. "It's funny you say that. I don't like them either. Try another argument." I'm tired of arguing with you. I already won, you just don't realize it. Let's just focus on our mutual distrust of TV preachers and be friends. hide

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Just because you have TV preachers on your side that swindle poor people out of their money and do so in the name of Jesus doesn't make you or them right."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It's funny you say that. I don't like them either. Try another argument.

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "You can call yourself a Christian all you want, but you are not. You are an adherent to a doctrine that's not Christ-like at all."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Ah yes, then we are no different, you and I.

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    " I wanted to argue for the need for the Eucharist I would do so in a profound and eloquent way that would leave you dumbfounded."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Doubt it. But, again, I'll wait for the catholics to answer. They won't, though. Everytime I ask a question or point something out that they have no answer for, they conveniently disappear.

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "If I wanted to argue for the need for the Eucharist I would do so in a profound and eloquent way that would leave you dumbfounded."

    Oh the humility....

  • Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Prophet, Don't you call me immature, you big meanie WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! You can call yourself a Christian all you want, but you are not. You are an adherent to a doctrine that's not Christ-like at all. Call it what you like and call me what you like. Just because you have TV preachers on your side that swindle poor people out of their money and do so in the name of Jesus doesn't make you or them right. The epitome (you must have used a dictionary) of my argument had nothing to do with whether or not Catholics are wrong or right. If I wanted to argue for the need for the Eucharist I would do so in a profound and eloquent way that would leave you dumbfounded. I was merely pointing out that "Where are the leaves at?" was not a typo. It shows a fundamental lack of comprehension as to how the English language is written and therefore it is not worth my time to argue with you. hide

  • Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I mean all calvinist?

  • Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    DRJ, I'm asking this because of something you said somewhere else.

    Do you believe that calvinists are not saved?

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