Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Church|Thu, Aug. 20 2009 08:51 AM EDT

Lutherans Narrowly Adopt New Sexuality Statement

By Joshua A. Goldberg|Christian Post Reporter

The chief legislative authority of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) adopted a new social statement on human sexuality Wednesday with exactly the number of votes needed to pass it.

“Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust,” the denomination’s tenth social statement, was passed on a 676-338 vote that met the two-thirds vote requirement on the dot.

The statement – which emphasizes two principles, trust and bound conscience – addresses a spectrum of topics relevant to human sexuality from a Lutheran perspective, including social structures, cohabitation, sexual exploitation, abuse, and homosexuality, the latter of which has drawn the most attention and controversy.

Opponents of the statement argue that adopting the statement would constitute abandonment of Scripture, as the Bible does not support homosexual behavior. Supporters, however, say the document maintain that it is consistent with the biblical command to care for one's neighbor and build trusting relationships.

Before adopting the statement, assembly delegates had to consider 13 proposed amendments, including one that sought to replace a section of the social statement about "lifelong monogamous same-gender relationships” with one that asserts the "practice of homosexual erotic behavior as contrary to God's intent."

In a 667-303 vote, the assembly opted against the aforementioned change, following the recommendation of an ad hoc committee that advised against the amendment’s adoption since the position articulated implies "a consensus that no longer exists."

After considering 6 of the 13 proposals, voting members moved to accept the recommendations of the ad hoc committee on all other amendments and moved to consider the adoption of the social statement.

Following the statement’s adoption, the Rev. Peter Strommen, who served as chair of the Task Force for ELCA Studies on Sexuality, said it was “quite stunning” to have witnessed an exactly two-thirds vote.

"I doubt very much that I've ever been present at an election with that many votes cast coming out exactly two-thirds,” he said. “We're naturally very glad that it passed.”

The Rev. Rebecca S. Larson, executive director of ELCA Church in Society, meanwhile, said she was “very proud of this church” but noted that it was a time of “diminished joy.”

"We know there is suffering all around on this issue,” she said at a news conference.

On Friday, delegates are expected to vote on another hotly debated and highly publicized proposal – one that would allow non-celibate people living in committed same-gender relationships to be on the professional rosters of ELCA.

Unlike the statement on human sexuality, however, the change in the denomination’s policies on the hiring of church leaders will require only a simple majority after delegates voted Monday against requiring a two-thirds majority to approve the change.

According to an in-depth national study of mainline Protestant clergy by Public Religions Research, a majority (54 percent) of ELCA clergy says that gay and lesbian people should be eligible for ordination with no special requirements and a plurality (46 percent) supports performing same-sex marriages in states where they are legal.

About one-third (32 percent), meanwhile, says that gay and lesbian people should be eligible for ordination only if they are celibate, and only 14 percent say gay and lesbian people should not be eligible at all.

With 4.7 million members, ELCA is the largest Lutheran church body in the United States and the fourth largest Protestant body.

Sort by: Newest | Oldest | Agree | Disagree
All comments on this page are subject to our Terms of Use and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Christian Post or its staff.
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    When a denomination or church adopts statements like this, it means they are Apostate. They have abandoned Biblical Christiantiy and have abandoned thier love for the Christ, and their love for the sinner for whom Christ died. To say this behavior is not sinful is to condemen the homosexual to a life of sin and slavery to that sin. Ture Christians need to leave these churches and take thier money with with them. In time this denomination will die, if it does not repent, either way, the sooner the better.

  • Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Six years ago I resigned from my post with in the ELCA over this issue. As we pointed out then and over these many years the teaching of our lord is explicate marriage was between one man and one woman. Have we as followers become more than our faith are we now taking the very thrown of the lord? When we listen to; then reject that which is plainly written, we become as the first who fell ; we disallow true grace and replace it with how we feel; we in effect say too the lord we will follow our will, not yours; you have heaven we have earth. No longer we will do your will but our will be done. We learn this from the gospel when he is asked about the law and the decree allowed by Moses on divorce. Then we have the teachings of Paul in Romans where condemnation of these very acts refereed too as choices is made. It seems that the many have chosen a very wide path and have rejected the narrow ways of the truth. I condemn no more than Paul as he says it is not our prerogative to do so. We can only judge those who are of the flock those who claim the church, if they reject the word as not applying to themselves or their actions they are not of the body. One must remember if one breaks one breaks all even in the slightest and knowingly to encourage and aid in ones sin and misconduct makes one guilty of their self same sin; their blood is upon your hands.Messages that contain flames, profanity or personal attacks may be edited or removed from the forum and your access to the forum may be terminated. Click here to create a message.

  • Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:56 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    How the APA removed homosexuality from its Manual of Mental Disorders in 1973
    http://www.blowthetrumpet.org/IsHomosexualityaMentalDisorder.htm

    Report Shows Gay Activist Influence on Mental Health Organizations
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/feb/06020902.html

    How the Mental Health Associations Misrepresent Science
    http://www.narth.com/docs/TheTrojanCouchSatinover.pdf

    Facts About HOmosexuality
    http://www.ucmpage.org/articles/facts_about_homosexuality.html

    APA 'ignoring the science' on homosexual reparative therapy
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=634346

    APA Sexual Orientation and Therapy Task Force Report: An Analysis
    http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090806/apa-sexual-orientation-and-therapy-task-force-report-an-analysis/index.html

    It's the ENDGAME, and as the Radical Feminist/Homosexual Alliance sees the majority unexpectedly beginning to wake up, they're panicking to get all their secret agenda's ultimate goals set into law.
    Since the 1970's they've kept themselves disguised as ordinary womens groups and family groups, while increasing their numbers and infiltrating society's most important institutions - from the bottom (all our schools) to the top (EU, UN and the WH).
    Their power, despite being less than 1% of the population, is a testament to their deviousness and their patient planning.
    It's the Endgame and they've almost won everything they always wanted. But suddenly some of the majority are waking up and are not afraid of all the shouting name-calling tactics that the RFHA has used on the public since the 1970's.
    It's time we all stand up against the RFHA and all the atheists ruining our country - and not back down as I'm sure they'll urge us to.

    TGF
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:23 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    after I posted,

    "When I talk about people pretending to be real Christians, I'm talking about people who go to church but don't believe in the whole Bible, just the parts that agree with their political ideology."

    Daniel Paul asked,

    "So, do you think practicing porneia is OK or not?"

    Practicing porneia is not OK. It is definitely a sin according to God. And God is going to permanently destroy those who practice porneia and refuse to repent.

    Christians have formed God's new nation and are warning everyone all over the world, while also declaring the Good News, that because of Jesus Christ's ransom sacrifice, whoever believes in him and repents of their sins, will be saved from eternal destruction, while those who don't believe, don't repent, and continue in their sinful ways as if nothing is about to happen, will be suddenly surprised just as in the days of Noah when they mocked this preacher of righteousness.

    The Good News will be declared all over the Earth and then the end will come. Those who are practising porneia will be judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

    Increasingly, since the invention of the printing press and the Bible coming into the hands of ordinary people, the Good News IS being preached to the ends of the earth. NOW is the time for those who are sinning to read the Bible and rationally ask their questions and study history and do whatever they need to do - to realize how the Bible IS the truth and God is going to soon call an end to the issue Satan brought forth in the Garden of Eden when he rebelled.

    Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarrelling and jealousy. (Romans 13:13)

    Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18)

    For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Ephesians 5:5-6)

    Christians,

    Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. (Ephesians 5:11-12)

    TGF
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:09 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 6

    hman, "It is irrational to claim that an adult human being is not capable of understanding the difference between a same-sex couple and "animal/human marriages."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    There is no difference. I person has the right to marry whomever, or whatever, they want. Remember, the constitution isn't set in stone. It can, has, and will be changed to fit man's ever-degrading morals

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:00 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "Please note that the gays (which feel Christianity has kept their homosexuality in their homes) is now seeking to come out in public and force Christians to flee to their homes and keep our Christianity there. Make no mistake, the pro-gay agenda is a war on Christianity. If you cannot play nice in public then the other Americans are going to send you back to your room." OH PLEASE. What an over-the-top nonsense rant. I must have really struck a nerve. It drives you nuts that I am right on this: Your right to freely practice your religion (anyone's right to practice any religion) ends when it breaks civil, secular laws. Period. That is an undisputable fact. You can't, for example, steal something then hide behind, "My religion says it's ok." See how far that gets you in court. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:55 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "Please show me where in the Constitution you have the civil right to be gay." What?? What kind of idiotic question is that? Are you seriously trying to challenge my statement that it is not illegal to be gay? If not I don't know what your point is. hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:55 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show after I posted, "When I talk about people pretending to be real Christians, I'm talking about people who go to church but don't believe in the whole Bible, just the parts that agree with their political ideology." Daniel Paul asked, "So, do you think practicing porneia is OK or not?" Practicing porneia is not OK. It is definitely a sin according to God. And God is going to permanently destroy those who practice porneia and refuse to repent. Christians have formed God's new nation and are warning everyone all over the world, while also declaring the Good News, that because of Jesus Christ's ransom sacrifice, whoever believes in him and repents of their sins, will be saved from eternal destruction, while those who don't believe, don't repent, and continue in their sinful ways as if nothing is about to happen, will be suddenly surprised just as in the days of Noah when they mocked this preacher of righteousness. The Good News will be declared all over the Earth and then the end will come. Those who are practising porneia will be judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire. Increasingly, since the invention of the printing press and the Bible coming into the hands of ordinary people, the Good News IS being preached to the ends of the earth. NOW is the time for those who are sinning to read the Bible and rationally ask their questions and study history and do whatever they need to do - to realize how the Bible IS the truth and God is going to soon call an end to the issue Satan brought forth in the Garden of Eden when he rebelled. Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarrelling and jealousy. (Romans 13:13) Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18) For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Ephesians 5:5-6) Christians, Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. (Ephesians 5:11-12) TGF --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches. hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    " You can do anything you want inside your home, your house of worship, and in your pertsonal life. In the public arena, you have to follow the law like everybody else. "

    Sig heil gays!!!!

    I am free to practice my Christianity anywhere I like and I do.

    Please note that the gays (which feel Christianity has kept their homosexuality in their homes) is now seeking to come out in public and force Christians to flee to their homes and keep our Christianity there.

    Make no mistake, the pro-gay agenda is a war on Christianity. If you cannot play nice in public then the other Americans are going to send you back to your room....

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:43 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    "That is a lie. You just made that up. You shouldn't lie, I think it says so in your rule book."

    My constitution trumps your law.

    Please show me where in the Constitution you have the civil right to be gay. If you cannot then it is you who lie.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:40 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 5

    "Daniel and others, sorry but I genuinely feel you guys are being abusive toward gay people."

    Then you're problems are far deeper than your homosexuality (like we didn't already know this). You are like a straight person who goes into a gay bar, gets up on a chair and starts yelling that everyone else in there is wrong. Dude...this is a Christian website that discusses issues from a Christian perspective. The Bible says porneia is sin (that's bad by the way). You are not going to find comfort for your sin here. This is why you think we are abusive.

    No. We will not accept your sin or your defending your sin. The only acceptance that matters is found in the Bible which clearly says porneia is a sin. YOU ARE ABUSIVE HM! Please don't slap our faith and then play the victim. I remindes me of my 3 year old and her brother....

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:35 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 5

    "Actually Prophet, you "sound" irrational."

    That's great Prophet. When a person who is irrational (who blasphemes the Holy Spirit) says that you sound irrational...that means you are rational! :D

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:37 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 3

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Jesus also repeatedly specifically said "during the lifetime of the people standing here." If that phrase is "symbolic and not to be taken literally," then there is no basis for understanding any of the rest of it as anything more than "symbolic and not to be taken literally." To my understanding, these things actually *have* already happened. Just my opinion of course! :-) But these are the facts: Jesus said the temple would be destroyed and the abomination of desolation would occur during the lifetime of some of the people standing there. The temple was indeed destroyed within about 40 years (70 AD). Desolation did indeed occur when the Jews were exiled from Palestine. hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:36 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 3

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "in Revelation, John saw what the church has become, and instructed true believers to "come out of her" because the Lord is going to destroy many. Judgment is coming first to the house of God, 1 Peter 4:17..." The Revelation is very clear that those things were to happen "soon". If the text is to be taken seriously, then those things have already happened. I don't buy the "soon in God's time" argument. God knew full well what the meaning of the word "soon" was. If it was 2000 years later and God said it was "soon", then God was being straight up dishonest. That would mean there is no reason to trust any other statement in the book of Revelation. We would be just as wrong to trust the rest of what John says in Revelation as the disciples of the time were to trust that those things were going to happen "soon." There are other words that don't mean "soon." He could have said "thousands of years from now," or "not soon" or "I'm not going to tell you when." But instead He said "soon." hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:15 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    All of this stuff that TGF was talking about, indoctrinating people into pro homosexual moves inthe Lutheran church for example, are all exactly why in Revelation, John saw what the church has become, and instructed true believers to "come out of her" because the Lord is going to destroy many. Judgment is coming first to the house of God, 1 Peter 4:17,
    "For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?"

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:06 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    And I don't know why homosexuals have to be so abusive towards Christians.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:34 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    "Hey, you can't stop me, I'm exercising my constitutional right free practice of religion!

    See how stupid that sounds?"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You know what else sounds stupid? Homosexuals saying "We have the right to marry, but not siblings, polygamy, or animal/human marriges." That is what is really stupid. The homosexuals sound just as exclusive as Christians. That is how stupid homosexuals sound.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:06 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Hang in there garageguy. :-\ Daniel and others, sorry but I genuinely feel you guys are being abusive toward gay people. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090821/gay-employment-bill-on-agenda-of-returning-congress/index.html hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:51 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "None the less, it does give a clear example to all that the pro-gay agenda is for the overturning of our Constitution and rewriting it in the gay image." That is a lie. You just made that up. You shouldn't lie, I think it says so in your rule book. Sounds like sour grapes to me. I think you know you're wrong on this point and it probably drives you nuts that you can't have free unfettered reign when it's at the expense of others' civil rights. Thank god (figure of speech) for the Constitution! hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:48 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "What religion is that? What religious book? Has it been registered as a church?" It doesn't matter. There is no authority that judges which religions count as protected and which don't. Why don't you just concede the point? You can do anything you want inside your home, your house of worship, and in your pertsonal life. In the public arena, you have to follow the law like everybody else. hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:23 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 6

    "As DP stated, we, true believers, are not breaking the constitutional law, you folks are."

    I'm not sure a depraved mind can understand such things. Still, we'll try to explain it as clearly as possible.

    None the less, it does give a clear example to all that the pro-gay agenda is for the overturning of our Constitution and rewriting it in the gay image.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:20 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    "See how stupid that sounds? "

    What religion is that? What religious book? Has it been registered as a church? What's in a name? Yep...I'll have to agree that you're post sounds stupid!!! :D

    The Bible says porneia is sin. None of your arguements are going to change that nor make it illegal for me to freely practice what it says. By the way, I can see why you would say that about the name Daniel since in the Hebrew it means "God is my judge" and you flat reject that concept. I could see why you would want the name Daniel to be bad....

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:58 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Oh I see, DP. Well in that case MY religious beliefs are that anyone with the name Daniel is automatically a bad person. They shall therefore be banned from marriage licenses, driver's licenses, and voting in public elections. Hey, you can't stop me, I'm exercising my constitutional right free practice of religion! See how stupid that sounds? hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:57 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 5

    AMEN, DP!!!

    GGUY: "..No. They can believe that if they want, but in the public arena they will be breaking the law. That is pure America through and through. You just don't like it because in this case you are the offender."

    As DP stated, we, true believers, are not breaking the constitutional law, you folks are.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:39 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 5

    "What if a person hates black people. Claims their religion tells them blacks are inferior. Is that their ticket to refusing or blacks and getting away with it?"

    First, living here in the south I can tell you that religion was and is not the reason people hate blacks. In fact, if they held to their religious beliefs they would say that God created them Black. Now, there is no evidence that God created anyone gay. Apples and oranges.

    Second, no law has kept some people around here from "refusing blacks". They are just more creative.

    Third, there is no Biblical grounds for being against the color of a persons skin. There IS Biblical grounds for being against porneia.

    What you want is to legislate morality and make the gay morality superior to Biblical morality. Truth be known, I'm just the messenger. The message is that "porneia" in ANY form is sin. This includes adultry, fornication, homosexuality and the like.

    Once again I say, I accept homosexuals. I do not accept porneia.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:33 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 5

    "Religious freedom ends when you have to break the law to practice it."

    Allow me:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Any law which causes the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is unconstitutional and thus not an enforcable law.


    "It is not against the law to be gay. Hence, no legal grounds to refuse or deny gay people."

    I have a CONSTITUTIONAL right to my religious beliefs and to bring those beliefs to the voting booth. Therefore, I DO have grounds to refuse and deny gay people who want to force me to participate against my conscience in their sin of porneia.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:59 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show DP, you make a false comparison. I'll repeat for you: Religious freedom ends when you have to break the law to practice it. It is not against the law to be gay. Hence, no legal grounds to refuse or deny gay people. What if a person hates black people. Claims their religion tells them blacks are inferior. Is that their ticket to refusing or blacks and getting away with it? No. They can believe that if they want, but in the public arena they will be breaking the law. That is pure America through and through. You just don't like it because in this case you are the offender. hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:26 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    "Sorry, but are we talking to people who have never opened up a Bible?
    And they're criticizing it?
    And they're mocking the offer of eternal life?"


    1Cr 6:9-11 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."


    Rom 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:03 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    Matthew Henry:

    "...Our Saviour has invited all that labour and are heavy-laden, to come unto Him. In some senses all men are so. Worldly men burden themselves with fruitless cares for wealth and honours; the gay and the sensual labour in pursuit of pleasures; the slave of Satan and his own lusts, is the merest drudge on earth. Those who labour to establish their own righteousness also labour in vain. The convinced sinner is heavy-laden with guilt and terror; and the tempted and afflicted believer has labours and burdens. Christ invites all to come to him for rest to their souls. He alone gives this invitation; men come to him, when, feeling their guilt and misery, and believing his love and power to help, they seek him in fervent prayer. Thus it is the duty and interest of weary and heavy-laden sinners, to come to Jesus Christ. This is the gospel call; Whoever will, let him come. All who thus come will receive rest as Christ's gift, and obtain peace and comfort in their hearts. But in coming to him they must take his yoke, and submit to his authority. They must learn of him all things, as to their comfort and obedience. He accepts the willing servant, however imperfect the services. Here we may find rest for our souls, and here only. Nor need we fear his yoke. His commandments are holy, just, and good. It requires self-denial, and exposes to difficulties, but this is abundantly repaid, even in this world, by inward peace and joy. It is a yoke that is lined with love. So powerful are the assistances he gives us, so suitable the encouragements, and so strong the consolations to be found in the way of duty, that we may truly say, it is a yoke of pleasantness. The way of duty is the way of rest. The truths Christ teaches are such as we may venture our souls upon. Such is the Redeemer's mercy; and why should the labouring and burdened sinner seek for rest from any other quarter? Let us come to him daily, for deliverance from wrath and guilt, from sin and Satan, from all our cares, fears, and sorrows. But forced obedience, far from being easy and light, is a heavy burden. In vain do we draw near to Jesus with our lips, while the heart is far from him. Then come to Jesus to find rest for your souls."


    This is the truth.
    God is not mocked.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:02 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    I hear folks say that "Jesus accepts you as who you are"......and so as they are they come to recieve the free gift of salvation, gladly.....but they continue to live as sons of hell....

    Why? because they belived a false gospel.

    JESUS SAID:

    Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


    Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


    Mat 11:30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.


    --------------------------------------------------------

    " Come to me "---- The invitation is to those who labor and are heavy laden.


    "all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden,"---Here He shows to whom he is pleased to reveal these things -- to all who feel heavily the burdens of life, of sin and sorrow.


    con't

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:44 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 4

    Daniel Paul said,

    "Apparently it is you who are missing the point. We are not fighting gays. We are fighting sin. In this case it is the sin of porneia. I accept gays. It's porneia I do not accept.

    Also, you will find that jihad is about killing one's enemies. Our fight is to save them..."

    Sorry, but are we talking to people who have never opened up a Bible?
    And they're criticizing it?
    And they're mocking the offer of eternal life?

    TGF

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:22 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 4

    Well, garageguy,

    If homosexuals don't like being denied the "right" to be married, they can leave as well. If I'm not mistaken, there are Godless countries that allow gay marriages. Why don't gays go there?

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:27 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    The very notion that private people in private business cannot live their lives (of which their business is a part) based on religious liberty reduces us below what men like Thomas Jefferson thought was below the level of what a democratic republic was to represent.

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:25 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 4

    " If they aren't up to simply doing their job, they can quit and go find work elsewhere. "

    That's the same as if I said that if gays aren't up to not being given special rights they can leave and go to Europe. How intolerant! You have clearly shown you have a double standard and view Christians as second class citizens who shouldn't have the right to live their conscience or be respected as people of conscience. That shows a complete lack of understanding of what our founding fathers set out to create.

    We have separation of Church and State. We do NOT have separation of private ethics from business. Even Thomas Jefferson said:

    "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever.

    Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18, 1781"

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:12 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 4

    "It's true. They are free to leave. County clerks who won't perform legal same sex marriages, for example. It's the law, and their job is clear."

    Again...that was the attitude of the Nazis. You accept what they made into law and how dare you have religious beliefs that don't bow to sin. When people are not free to live their conscience then there is no religious freedom.

    It didn't hurt the lesbian couple to go somewhere else. Patients are sent to other doctors all the time. There are plenty of photographers in AZ. There was plenty of places for the lesbians to have their wedding, but no...they had to run over religious freedom with their anti-Christ attitude. How DARE Christians actually live what they believe!

    You don't force your homosexuality on other people unless they think it's sin. Then it seems just fine to target them for being Christians. Perhaps many homosexuals are worse hypocrites than many Christians....

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:34 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Oh please, DP. Stop with the empty rhetoric. It's true. They are free to leave. County clerks who won't perform legal same sex marriages, for example. It's the law, and their job is clear. From 9 to 5 they work for the county, not their supernatural leader. The county pays their salary. If they aren't up to simply doing their job, they can quit and go find work elsewhere. What's the problem? hide

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:18 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 4

    "If their religion doesn't allow it, they are free to quit that job or close that business"

    You didn't give credit for your quote. Was it Hitler or Stalin?

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:35 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    garageguy,

    "I guess the truth hurts."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Apparently not. Either that, or you are a glutton for pain.

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:48 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    .. there are no man made laws greater than the LAWGIVER HIMSELF, YHVH. Those who think so have a seared conscience and don't have sound mind.

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:27 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    Flagged as inappropriate. show I guess the truth hurts. hide

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:03 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "Yes, I do see gays forcing their beliefs on us and call it civil rights..." No, DP. In the examples you gave the only thing the people were being forced to do was abide by the law. Laws that are in place to protect the liberty of us all. If their religion doesn't allow it, they are free to quit that job or close that business. Freedom of religion is great, but it ends when it is used to break the law. hide

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:05 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    " gguy feels no guilt"

    Rom 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; "

    The word "reprobate" is the Greek word "adokimos" which means:

    1) not standing the test, not approved
    a) properly used of metals and coins

    2) that which does not prove itself such as it ought
    a) unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

    Does that answer your question, Prophet?

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:03 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 4

    Not sure who's not comprehending who. Apparently, gguy feels no guilt about denying people of their rights, nor does he feel guilt about playing the victim.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:03 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    "ou don't see me trying to force you to live by my rules do you?"

    I do. If I am a fertility doctor in CA I have to violate my conscience before God and help lesbians. If I am a photographer in AZ I MUST validate gay marriage by accepting a contract even though there are many other photograpers who would gladly take the job. If I am a Church in the NE I must allow lesbians to rent our church property to have a "wedding" and celebrate porneia.

    Yes, I do see gays forcing their beliefs on us and call it civil rights....

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:00 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    "You and your little christian army fighting your jihad against the big bad gays"

    Apparently it is you who are missing the point. We are not fighting gays. We are fighting sin. In this case it is the sin of porneia. I accept gays. It's porneia I do not accept.

    Also, you will find that jihad is about killing one's enemies. Our fight is to save them....

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:20 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 7

    Flagged as inappropriate. show You still aren't comprehending the words. I don't know how much clearer I can make it. The problem seems to be you are unable to distinguish tolerating from approving. No one cares about your approval. You and your little christian army fighting your jihad against the big bad gays. Again, what an ego. hide

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:00 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    proph, maybe if you draw stick figures for garbageguy he'll get it. like a picture of a homosexual bashing in the head of a christian. why not? its just a matter of time.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:57 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    "Name one way in which you must live your life by my rules if we do things my way?"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I've already named two. I will name them again. First amendment. I can say that I disagree with homosexuality and that gay marriages should not be allowed. You want to deny me of that.
    My right to do all I can legally to promote my views and keep our country from going morally bankrupt. You want to deny me of that, and yet you want your right to promote your views.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:27 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 6

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Prophet, go take a remedial reading class. I repeat: You don't see me trying to force you to live by my rules do you? Name one way in which you must live your life by my rules if we do things my way? Hint: there is none. My way is that both you and I are free (that little thing in America called 'freedom') to live our respective lives as we see fit. Your way is that everyone lives your way. What an ego. hide

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:53 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 4

    "You don't see me trying to force you to live by my rules do you?"


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

    Yes I do. You are trying to keep me from my right to free speech, and my right to voice my opinion, and my right to do what I can legally to try and keep my country as morally sane as I can.

Please help us to monitor our message boards by flagging comments that are unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable.
Contact Us if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Comment on this story
ID Password

Don't have a Christian Post ID? Signing up is easy. Click Here

  • icon1
  • icon2
  • icon3
  • icon4
  • icon5
The Christian Post reserves the right to terminate the account of any User who violates our Terms of Use.
Advertisement
Advertisement
CP Shopping
  • Jewelry
  • Health
  • Church
  • Gifts
  • Coins

Bracelets | Chains | Crosses | Earrings | Gemstone |

Featured contents & Giveaways
Joolwe :
Cross-pendant necklace
Bethany House Publishers

It was a balmy California evening. I had gone for a jog before I was to speak at a leadership conference. I still can't recall how I got there, but I found myself sitting on a curb

Featured Advertiser Links