Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Church|Thu, Sep. 03 2009 07:21 PM EDT

Reformed Body Says Lutheran Gay Vote Does Not Impair Partnership

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

The Reformed Church in America has no plans to end its full communion relationship with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America over the Lutherans' recent vote to allow noncelibate homosexuals to be ordained.

"Cutting ties with the ELCA over their Assembly’s narrow decision would witness to the world that Christians will fight and divide themselves from one another, and break the bonds of Christian fellowship, over such an ethical difference," RCA spokesman Paul Boice told The Christian Post.

More than ten years have passed since the two denominations entered into full communion and began recognizing each other "as churches in which the gospel is rightly preached and the sacraments rightly administered according to the Word of God" and providing for the orderly exchange of ordained ministers.

But when the highest legislative body of the ELCA approved a resolution last month allowing gays and lesbians in "life-long, monogamous, same gender relationships" to be ordained, the controversial action called into question its full communion agreements with other denominations.

Pastor Kevin DeYoung of University Reformed Church in East Lansing, Mich., stated in his blog that the Gospel is at stake if the RCA remains in full communion with the ELCA.

Calling ELCA's action egregious, DeYoung urged his denomination to break its relationship with the Lutherans.

"What do we do when a denomination perverts the grace of our God into sensuality (Jude 4) – and not just a few renegade churches here and there, but the whole denomination in its official decision making capacity?" DeYoung posed. "Homosexuality is, as J.I. Packer has argued, a heretical issue because it denies a central tenet of the gospel – repentance."

The debate stirred by ELCA's recent vote echoes discussions from more than a decade ago when the RCA was considering full communion agreement with the United Church of Christ, which supports an open and affirming view on homosexuality.

"The official stances of our two churches differed, and continue to differ today, as with the ELCA," Boice explained. But, "the difference on this ethical issue did not involve the core of the gospel; in other words, we still recognized one another as churches."

The 1997 "Formula of Agreement" establishing a full communion partnership was signed by the RCA, ELCA, UCC, and Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.).

That agreement, Boice noted, calls the denominations to "mutual affirmation and admonition." In that spirit, the RCA has been clear with the UCC concerning their differences and will also hold the same stance with the ELCA, Boice said.

The RCA spokesman added that their relationship with the Lutherans is "a significant one," particularly around their combined efforts in mission and ministry.

"If we began cutting ties with every denomination with which we had a difference, we would be unfaithful to our Lord’s call to seek the unity of his body and do serious harm to our witness and mission in the world," he said.

Currently, the RCA does not affirm homosexual behavior and holds that it is contrary to the will of God. But there are divisions within the Reformed body over homosexuality and the denomination began an "honest" and "intentional" dialogue on the issue in 2005.

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  • Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    First things... lets all be civil. Sin is sin, and as a Body of Believers we are to be known by our love.... for what good is there in loving those who love us in return.

    DO not return hate for hate....

    FOR HM: HM your arguement is not with me..but with Scripture...if you believe Paul is teaching something contrary to Christ it is not an error on my part. Neither will I try to convince you otherwise. The book of Timothy teaches there are those who live a life contrary to Christian teaching and seek out teachers who will tickle ears....


    So let me ask you what is John 3:16 through 20 saying?

  • Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "for those whom God chooses, the HS gives us the truth of the Scriptures...." Yes. And by the way, you are not keeping up on your end of the bargain. Believer and Weekenderman harrassed Mike for hours on end. Will you ask them to LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE?!? hide

  • Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Jar, in any case, what you wrote definitely conflicts with what Jesus taught. If you insist that there can be no conflict between what Paul wrote and what Jesus taught, then that means that you are misinterpeting Paul. hide

  • Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:04 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    The Bible is the Word of God from cover to cover. It is sad to know that so many are struggling to find a place where the carnal desires can some how be reconciled to the spiritual teachings.

    Perhaps one ought to look at JOhn 3:16-20 in trying to see supportive Scripture outside of Paul if that is what you are looking for.

    PAul does not speak on his own but is a vessel through which GOd operated HM.

    Scripture is not a private interpretation HM but for those whom God chooses, the HS gives us the truth of the Scriptures....

    It is not a matter of understanding the Bible differently for those who are in Christ but rather how the truth speaks to our circumstances. It is one and the same truth given to the Body of Believers and allowing that truth to operate in our lives.

    Those who claim a seperate interpretation may want to revisit their spiritual relationship

  • Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "There is no disagreement between Paul and Jesus in the recorded Word except in your mind." Sorry, I've studied this quite a lot, and I disagree. You're free to your own opinion of course. Somehow you have to reconcile the phrase that JAR quotes from Paul with what Jesus taught. To me they seem to be at odds. How do you reconcile them? Even Paul himself confessed that he could conceivably contradict himself, and then the congregation would know they had to rely on the gospel. hide

  • Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:39 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 2

    Hman, the whole Word of God is HIS WORD. There is no disagreement between Paul and Jesus in the recorded Word except in your mind. Paul followed Jesus, and we follow Jesus. Paul's words are part of the writings, just as inspired as any of the rest of the Bible.

  • Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Since the topic of this article, and this discussion, is acceptance versus rejection of gay people, what I'm saying (somewhat simplistically I'll grant) is that people who use Paul's writings to justify their homophobia are following Paul, and are rejecting what Jesus taught. It doesn't make sense to me that they would call themselves "Christians." They reject what Jesus taught. They don't support it - they don't believe it - they revile it. They outright *oppose* what Jesus taught. And it's not just a minor detail. It's the very core of what they believe: opposing Jesus and harming your fellow man in the process is what it takes to be saved. They should call themselves "Paulians," to distinguish themselves from those of us who at least try to follow what Jesus taught. hide

  • Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "What business has light with darkness?" To me this is one of those places where Paul seems to flat out disagree with Jesus. I think Paul was sometimes stuck in his Pharisaic mindset, and he made mistakes, this being one of them. For me this is the overall theme of what gets called "Christianity" in the US. To me it seems that "you guys" are followers of Paul, not of Jesus. When Paul disagrees with Jesus, you run off to watch the stonings with Paul, and you leave Jesus behind in the dust. hide

  • Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:39 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Isnt it amazing how easily apostacy happens.... the gospel of "cant we all get along"? doctrines of demons.
    tickled ears and the sophistry of evil. Men dressed in sheep's clothing..... Let me say this. I am a pastor of a small country church. Watching the news and the apostate church just gives me the encouragment to keep on keeping on for the Gospels sake.....

    What business has light with darkness? None....

    Anyone looking for a church striving for purity in Pennsylvania... let me know... God said it I beleive it and that settles it

  • Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:36 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    reformation, it looks like the Catholic Church is right on this issue. I would not the problem in aligning with them, unless someone is operating from a knee-jerk mindset that whatever Catholicism does, we do the opposite.

  • DRJ »
    Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:41 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    It is interesting that some people who call themselves "Christian" believe that church is just the place to show homosexuals about God's love!!! Let's address this half truth from the Apostle Paul's perspective. YES! We must always show God's love, but we must never forget God's disciplines. Addressing the Corinthian church concerning a man sleeping with his step-mother, Paul told the church to dis-associate with the man by putting him outside of the church's fellowship. The purpose? Good chastises those He loves! The church is called to do as God does, not merely say what God says. If you really did love the homosexuals who claim membership in the church of Jesus Christ, you would (1) counsel them regarding their sin and then (2) dis-associate from them is they will not repent. The Word of God is clear that after you have counseled with sinners in your fellowship, when they repent, you have won your brother! Other than that there is no other possible treatment of sin in the Christian camp. Amen?

  • Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    To : New Creation : Please read Leviticus in its entirety.Conservative Christians have been cherry picking the Old Testament for ever.

  • Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:31 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Today people change, all humans are same and equal.The Gospel is about peace,love too.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:59 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    Money, Power, and Politics. I thought we separated ourselves from the Roman Catholic church. Instead most of our Evangelical churches are lining themselves right back up with Rome. Our Christian pastors and churches sit to comfortable in our time today. Unfortunately this comes at the cost of misleading many people. Money, Power, Position, men pleasing or the Word of God? Look around you and you see the choice which most are taking.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:18 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 0

    Excellent comment - "Did He not say "come from among them and be ye separate?"" - I had thought about that one myself last night, but you beat me to it. :)

    What is going on when so many so-called Christians don't know the scriptures, don't know how the scriptures apply to THEM, or don't want to believe the scriptures if they are familiar with them?

    We might also add how the blind will lead the blind.

    TGF
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    One of the most loving things we can do is help a homosexual to repent and become normal again.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:37 pm Agree: 11   Disagree: 3

    What is very telling to me is that the only side that is being asked for additional tolerance are those who follow what is in the Bible. Why is there no talk of asking those who are involved in homosexual activities to try and refrain, or better yet, repent?

    You know who is the one behind that viewpoint...satan.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:21 am Agree: 13   Disagree: 1

    Did He not say "come from among them and be ye separate?" He did. Did He not say "For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness?" He did. Pastor DeYong is right. The gospel is at stake. Happily, I am not a member of any of these apostate denominations.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:11 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    ...a great read--



    The Defense of Christianity
    -----------------------------
    By Cornelius VanTil


    A Dialogue — Mr. Black, Mr. White, Mr. Grey
    We have first the non-Christian, who worships the creature rather than the Creator. We shall call him Mr. Black. Mr. Black may be a very "decent" sort of man. By God’s common grace he may do much that is "good." Even so he is, as long as he remains in his unconverted state, black in the sight of God.

    On the other hand we have a representative of those who have, by the grace of God, become worshipers of the Creator-Redeemer, called Mr. White. Mr. White is far from what, judging him by his name, we should expect him to be. But he is washed in the blood of the Lamb. In Christ he is whiter than snow. Mr. White is the Reformed Christian.

    But, strangely enough, there is a third party, an Arminian, called Mr. Grey. Of course, in Christ Mr. Grey is as white as is Mr. White. Mr. Grey thinks that Mr. White is too severe in his evaluation of Mr. Black. Mr. Black is not all that black. It is not pedagogically wise to require of Mr. Black that he make a complete about-face. Surely no such complete revolution is necessary in the field of science and in the field of philosophy. Many of Mr. Black’s followers have valiantly defended the existence of God against materialism, atheism, and positivism. Even in theology many of these disciples of Mr. Black have sprung to the defense of God when he was attacked by the God-is-dead theologians. Mr. Grey, therefore typifies the Aquinas-Butler method of defending Christianity.

    Let us now note the difference between the way Mr. White and the way Mr. Grey approach the unbeliever, Mr. Black, with the gospel of Christ........

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    http://thirdmill.org/newfiles/cor_vantil/cor_vantil.defense.html

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:31 am Agree: 11   Disagree: 0

    "What do we do when a denomination perverts the grace of our God into sensuality (Jude 4) – and not just a few renegade churches here and there, but the whole denomination in its official decision making capacity?" DeYoung posed. "Homosexuality is, as J.I. Packer has argued, a heretical issue because it denies a central tenet of the gospel – repentance."


    ... No acknowledgement of sin, no repentane, no salvation.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:46 am Agree: 10   Disagree: 0

    What does the Church stand for? When we as Christians choose to ignore the parts of the bible that we don't like. When God called me, he didn't instruct me to pick and choose the parts of his word that I liked, but to bring his complete word. Sounds to me like there needs to be some repenting going on!

  • artm »
    Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:06 am Agree: 11   Disagree: 3

    The Apostate Church marches on. To break ties with the Elca would witness too the world that someone in that group still believes in the Bible.

    remaining in this reprobate church says to the world the Word of God means nothing to me.

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