Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Church|Mon, Sep. 28 2009 08:18 AM EDT

Ariz. Megachurch Cuts Ties with ELCA

By Eric Young|Christian Post Reporter

A megachurch in Glendale, Ariz., unanimously voted Sunday to cut ties with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and will be joining the smaller Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ.

At a congregational meeting following worship, Community Church of Joy voted 129-0 to terminate its affiliation with ELCA as the church’s vision, values and mission are no longer aligned with the nation’s largest Lutheran denomination, according to the Rev. Walter P. Kallestad, senior pastor of the congregation.

"There is such a different direction that the ELCA has chosen, a path they're traveling on, and we really believe that it just was not consistent to where God has called us,” said Kallestad, whose congregation was the 10th largest in ELCA with 6,800 baptized members.

“And so we’re parting,” he told the ELCA News Service.

On its website, Community Church of Joy cited three documents to help make clear the reasons for the congregation's actions. One document is on ELCA’s policy toward Israel, which the church says is not supportive of the nation.

Another is about Holy Scripture, which ELCA claims in its social statement on homosexuality “cannot be used in isolation as the norm for Christian life and the source of knowledge for the exercise of moral judgment.”

Community Church of Joy noted how ELCA’s website states that the writers of the Bible “sometimes provide differing and even contradictory views of God’s word, ways and will.”

They also pointed to a number of argumentative comments in the Lutheran Study Bible, including misleading translations and its silence on Apostle Paul’s comment on homosexuality as sin.

Lastly, the third document noted activities taken by ELCA promoting homosexual clergy.

Last month, during the triennial gathering of ELCA’s chief legislative body, delegates voted 559-451 to approve a resolution allowing gays and lesbians in “life-long, monogamous, same gender relationships” to be ordained.

Delegates also adopted a new social statement on human sexuality with exactly the number of votes (676 or two-thirds) needed to pass it. The statement, which emphasizes two principles – trust and bound conscience – addresses a spectrum of topics relevant to human sexuality, including social structures, cohabitation, sexual exploitation, abuse, and homosexuality.

"I was praying that [Sunday’s vote] would be a clear direction from the congregation," said Kallestad, who will be resigning from ELCA’s clergy roster to be consistent with the congregation’s decision.

Sunday’s vote follows an earlier one that took place in June 28, when 185 members voted 174-11 in favor of disassociating from ELCA. In a separate vote that same day, members decided by a 98 percent margin to align the church with Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (LCMC), an association of 179 congregations in the United States "rooted in the Lutheran Confessions.”

Started by the WordAlone Network as an alternative for local churches who no longer felt that they could remain in ELCA, LCMC currently has congregations in 37 states and 8 countries.

According to LCMC's website, 10 churches have voted to join LCMC in the past six months.

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  • Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:12 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 2

    ChasingSatan

    I totally disagree with you on this!!! Gen 12:3 states clearly that those who bless israel will be blessed but those who curse Israel will be cursed. Israel is God's chosen Land that he gave the the Jewish people in an everlasting covenent through Abraham Issac & Jacob. Jerusalem is His Holy city, the city from which Jesus will rule the earth in the soon to come millenial Kingdom where there will be no sickness, no pain, no crime, no death and NO SIN. Since Israel and the Jewish people are God's chosen ones, and since when we are saved, we are grafted into the Jewish family, thus we become JEWS, why would we not support our family??

    Yes, there definately a huge war coming. It will be when the entire turns against Israel. Then, God will come to the defence of His Land and His people, and the attackers will be but a memory. Scripture states that the Israelis will be cleaning up their remains for 7 years.

    PS I wouldnt' be chasing satan too closley, he's likely to turn around and nab you!

  • Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:39 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 4

    This fervent Christian support of Israel will lead us into the third world war. Pity that those of us who are not christian or jewish will be dragged down too...

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:51 pm Agree: 20   Disagree: 14

    Mislead translation too when we point at someones during explaination.Today people changed; we discovered all are the same,they are not worse.It's better to accept,affirm,adopt all ;good testimony ,more effective in evangelistic;applying truth.Conservative thoughts cause us resist to change,poor in understading of humans, insist that hate is holy,extrem-morally(non-peace,critic,judge,punish, just happened ).

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:50 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 16

    Actually, yes, it is the RCC.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:58 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 8

    And Prophet,

    No, that would not be the Roman Catholic Church. It is the churches of any denomination who adhere to the teachings of God's Word. In my part of the world, mostly that's Baptist, Pentecostal, independent churches with some churches out of some of the mainline denominations who oppose their denomination's hierarchy's apostasy. I believe we should stand with any body of believers who stand on the Word of God, whatever they call themselves denominationally.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:53 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 10

    Ah, Cheisa, you surely know that I was referring to those churches ordaining homosexual pastors and women, approving of homosexuality, favoring a woman's "right to destory her own baby" and ignoring lots of scripture. As to those who believe in "sola scriptura," we are hardly apostate for believing the Bible is the inerrant, infallible, holy, inspired Word of the Living God.

    We neither believe in adding to or taking away from God's Word. Our objection to Romanism is mainly the adding to which keeps occuring.

    As for the seven books, folks far smarter than I deemed them not a part of the Canon of Holy Scripture long before the Reformation.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:46 am Agree: 9   Disagree: 12

    "Luther might count as orthodox in protestant circles, but he's a liberal who couldn't comply with the demands God places on Catholic clergy."

    Prophet hit the nail on the head. Roman Catholics use circular reasonings to make their points. "Him who has ears to hear, let him hear."

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:44 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 8

    Prophet,

    Yes; it is unfortunate that some attribute traditions to the apostles without showing where they supposedly spoke these things. It is like me saying George Washington said this and Washington said that without providing the evidence for my claim. A few years back there was a commercial where an old lady asked, “Where’s the beef” . . . I have to ask Cheisa “Where’s the proof"?

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:30 am Agree: 8   Disagree: 12

    Online4Him,

    That is such a good defense, though. To say "Well, the apostles said this and this and verbally taught this and this." And when we say "How do you know?", the catholics say "Because the "Church" says they did." It is somewhat of a self-perpetuating misconception. The "Church" say's the apostles said it, even though it goes against Scripture, so it must be true. That is the adherance to an organization instead of adherance the the Truth.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:27 am Agree: 11   Disagree: 16

    "Hallelujah for all those churches and individual Christians who follow Biblical truth and will not participate in a watered down, apostate church."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Would that be the Catholic church that added a number of uninspired apocryphal books to the Bible? Who's teachings go against the Scriptures?

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:26 am Agree: 12   Disagree: 18

    Also, please stop putting words in the apostle’s mouths by claiming that they taught your extra-biblical dogmas. We have yet to read from their writings where they uttered your traditions . . .

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:23 am Agree: 21   Disagree: 27

    Cheisa ,

    You said, “There was no reason to "go back" to God's Word, the Church never left it.”

    You’re kidding, right? Their entire system was/is based on works that obscures God’s grace and makes salvation a thing to be earned instead received by faith. Pilgrimages, indulgences, repetitive prayers through the rosary, genuflecting before shrines, and bowing before images made by men’s hands are all seen as meritorious works. These practices will never absolve anyone of their sins nor give them the peace that comes only from believing in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It is written:

    “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” (1 John 1:7).

    “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” (Hebrews 9:14).


    Tell me Cheisa how does the blood of Christ cleanse us from all sin?

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:19 am Agree: 9   Disagree: 2

    Cheisa,

    Your comment to me requires that the RCC be thechurch which it isn't. At best, each denomination or subset of His church is just that, a piece of the church (which is the people and not an ecclesiastical hierarchy). The NT usage of "church" or "ekklesia" has only one reference that can be linked to a building or even possibly a hierarchical structure (and that would be a stretch as well) but instead speaks of the "called-out" of the human population. Your response shows only that you believe the RCC to be the one and only structure that is His church and that certainly isn't and can't be proven.

    There are always a remnant no matter where certain denominations and subsets apostatize or just take a temporary run off the reservation so to speak. His church will not be defeated by the gates of Hell no matter if it is an apostatized church oranization or persecution from governments!

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 20

    Blacksho,

    Luther might count as orthodox in protestant circles, but he's a liberal who couldn't comply with the demands God places on Catholic clergy. Luther's 95 complaints were largely about his disagreements with the life he chose and less about abuses of indulgences and the like. So he set up a church the way he thought it should be, as though he knew better than Christ.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:17 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 18

    Jim,

    I find it odd that God would found His Church and the do it all over again 1500 years later. Or is Christianity only 500 years old, not 2000?

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:16 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 17

    And, yes, the Orthodox left the Church, not vice versa. In fact, they left the Church several times, returned several times and swore their recognition of and allegiance to Papal authority, only to leave again. That boomerang effect seems to make clear who were the separatists.

    But the Orthodox are only a small portion of Easterners who left the Church. There were many more in the East who stayed true to God and the Church and are represented by the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church, faithful to the Bishop of Rome, the descendent of Peter.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:11 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 21

    Hallelujah for all those churches and individual Christians who follow Biblical truth and will not participate in a watered down, apostate church.

    That would be protestants? They removed 7 books from the NT, did away with baptism and the Eucharist and deny many of the beliefs and practices that defined Christianity for 16 centuries. They've done the watering down. The Catholic Church stands today because the gates of hades shall not prevail against it as Christ promised.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:08 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 16

    Hey tribtrooper,

    It's protestants, not Catholics who are giving the stamp of approval to homosexuality, going to so far as to having gays act as pastors in God's house. The Catholic Church stands quite firm on the point that homosexuality is sin.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:04 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 15

    Luther was a bit of an egomaniac with inate distaste for authority. There was no reason to "go back" to God's Word, the Church never left it. While there was need for reform in some areas, schism is not reform. It is abandoning the Church, several books of the OT and setting up a new religion more to your liking with less strenuous demands.

    And the Word wasn't buried under a mountain of Tradition, since it is a part of Sacred Tradition. The NT was an oral tradition, a spoken teaching beofre it was ever put to paper. The Church preserved that Tradition and more. Tradition enhances and expands our understanding of Scripture by revealing what the Church Fathers, the earliest Christians, thought and wrote about their experiences with Christ and the Apostles that gave them insight into His message.

    These are invaluable first hand accounts of those who traveled with the Apostles, were taught by them and then taught, themselves, in those earliest years of the Church. They reveal to us just what the early Church believed and show the continuity of belief from the Apostles through the ensuing centuries.

    Without Tradition, you have an incomplete picture of the Church, it's beliefs and it's history. Taht's why you get so many things wrong.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:38 am Agree: 7   Disagree: 12

    Hallelujah for all those churches and individual Christians who follow Biblical truth and will not participate in a watered down, apostate church.

  • Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:56 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 5

    Good for the conservative people only ;but , these lead today-people insists to change,lack of undersatnding of human-realistic(also cause mislead translation of belief )cruel,cold relationship ,division, self-sacred,eliminate,discriminate,disharmonic,hate,bitterness;it isn't good testimony; we aren't applying Gospel-Truth.

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:29 pm Agree: 11   Disagree: 15

    And the Blessed LORD is appauled at the condition of many churches in today's liberal society, including the cahtolic church. Scripture teaches clearly that judgement will come first to the household of God, before He begins judging the rest of the world. Jesus is coming for a clean. pure bride, not this mess passing themselves off as the church today, those who love to say things like, "oh, this is modern times" or "God understands", or the ever popular, at least here, "homosexual behavior is great in the eyes of God",blaspheming the name of God saying that Jesus Christ, GOD IN HUMAN FORM, would actually have a homosexual(or ANY sexual) relationship when scripture is adamantly clear, beyond and doubt that homosexuality is ABOMINATION ---- BALDERDASH!

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:19 pm Agree: 11   Disagree: 16

    Good on this church and all the other Lutheran churches who are taking a stand for the true Word of God!

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:02 pm Agree: 13   Disagree: 1

    Chas,

    This Catholic monk who you call a schismatic directed the masses back to God's Word and there were many before him who tried to do the same. If Catholicim would have been faithful to God's Word there wouldn't have been a Reformation. I guess the Eastern Church in 1054 was to blame for their split from the West too; funny, how it is always the other party and never Rome to blame . . .

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:56 pm Agree: 12   Disagree: 1

    Cheisa,

    Correction; the Reformation was a call to reform and a return to God's Word which Catholicism had burried under a mountain of tradition . . . Surely, you do not deny that there was a need for reform, do you?

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:26 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 6

    The Reformation movement was of and directed by God Himself and His church is never in doubt. His church will prevail against the gates of Hell and no amount of heretics (no matter what denominational or historical stripe)can stop it!

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:34 pm Agree: 13   Disagree: 1

    I call Luther orthodox because he wished to rid Christ's Church of worldly influences that had crept in.
    I agree, however, that his reformation has been again tainted by the World. It seems that it may be necessary to destroy the structure periodically in order to preserve the Church.

  • Chas »
    Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:43 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 13

    Sorry Blackshoe, but Luther was not orthodox, he was schismatic. He would not be considered Liberal either.

    Luther would not recognize any of the churches that bear his name.

    He would be appalled at the state of today's Lutheran Church. Even the most conservative Lutheran Churches do not adhere to his theology. Lutheranism has been so watered down that Luther would not recognize it.

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:39 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 0

    No, Luther was nothing if not orthodox.

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:22 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 12

    I think it's a bit ironic that the religion founded on protest is now in schism, the victim of similar protests by it's own churches. This time, though, instead of liberals fleeing orthodoxy, it's the more orthodox fleeing the liberals.

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:51 pm Agree: 18   Disagree: 17

    God's Word "cannot be used in isolation as the norm for Christian life and the source of knowledge for the exercise of moral judgment."

    What kind of person composes such demonic words, and is then able to insert them into a religious organization's Statement of Beliefs?

    TGF
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:15 pm Agree: 23   Disagree: 31

    Apparently this church still believes that sin is sin regardless of a sick society, and decided not to throw Christian morals out the door to appease it.

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