Landmark Study: Nearly 1 in 4 People is Muslim

tribtrooper »

Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:08 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

Graceman

You said: "You know, I went to theology school and one of the professors there said there was not going to be any millennium rule of Christ. So you over generalize; most theology schools let their graduates come to their own conclusions."

This professor is tossing out parts of the Bible that do indeed teach about the Milleninal Kingdom, then!! A few of those references are: Isaiah 2: 2-4, chapters, 11-12, 60-66, Jesus spoke of the millenial kingdom, Revelation 20 and on into ch. 22 and there are several other references as well. To this I would add: Rev 22:19,"and if anyone takes away from the words of the Book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this Book."

Jesus taught that;
1) He would come immediately after the tribulation (Matt
24:29-21 to collect those that remain alive who are His
and those who are dead in Him and we will reign with Him for that 1000 year period.

2) That after 1000 years (the Millenial Reign) those who
are lost will be resurrected for the judgement and sent
to their eternal punishment.

3) Then there will be a new heavens and a new earth.

We as mortal human beings make mistakes. We misuderstand many things in life, not just Scripture, but the Bible is abundantly cnear that there is in fact a Millenial Reign lasting 1000 years and that there is a judgement afterwards. Our churches, pulpits and seminaries have their share of wolves in sheeps' clothing, some who are simply in error, others who are there to intentionally lead the flock astray. As for me, I will lean on the ONLY dependable, always correct Word of God. That Word says that Jesus is coming for His own and that He will reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

I have known a few people personally who have given their testimony that the theology schools they attended insisted that they embrace the pretrib theory are were threatened with expulsion if they persisted in questioning that theory.

ManofGod »

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:51 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Man, look at that, I made a mistake. lol.

I meant to say *NOT* worshipping Him for Who He Is can lead to idolatry. My bad y'all. There's me being fallible.

ManofGod »

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:32 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Also, check out Isaiah 40/Isaiah 55:8-9. We cannot contain God. So let's just WORSHIP HIM for Who He Is... not for what we've pieced together in our minds. Truthfully speaking, worshipping Him for Who we think He is can lead to idolatry... because we can end up worshipping the God of our minds (come on somebody, lol) and not YHWH. So let's let God outta that box we have Him in and let Him do HIS thing on the Christian church... afterall, if we lift Him up, we know what happens next (John 12:30-35).

Bless the name of the LORD!!!

ManofGod »

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:22 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Whatup beautiful people of GOD?

Hey, I just wanted to throw something out there. I think that we too often argue about doctrine and that leads to too much separation. I've been places where they have churches on every corner... this is indicative of pure division, and much of it is based on doctrine. Trust me, I'm all for sound doctrine being taught and understood, but we have to take off the whole mantra of "I'm right, you're wrong". Truthfully speaking, none of us have ALL the right answers. None of us have a patent on God either as He's just too much for our finite minds to comprehend.

The bottom line is that we HAVE to be unified through FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST!!! Romans 10:9, Saints. That's what unifies us. The more we bicker about doctrine or who's right and who's wrong, the more we will be divided... and we all know what happens to a house divided against itself (Luke 11:17). I mean, just check out Luke 3:7-9, John the Baptist had to put some folk in their place who just *KNEW* they were right in their theology. We don't have all the answers.

The moral of this story (lol) in this case, pretrib/posttrib, just trust in Christ and BE READY AT ALL TIMES. Let's constantly intercede on behalf of the body and remain unified.

Grace and peace!

GraceMan »

Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:40 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

tribtrooper,

You know, I went to theology school and one of the professors there said there was not going to be any millennium rule of Christ. So you over generalize; most theology schools let their graduates come to their own conclusions.

ShineYourEyes »

Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:25 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

"Nearly one out of every four persons in the world today is Muslim, according to the results of a comprehensive demographic study of more than 200 countries."
I became worried when I read the above statement. The reason is that I discovered people just conjure bloated figures anyhow and publish junks in the name of research report. I see this as either expression of ignorance or a religious propaganda. For instance I read another report from US that there are 50% Muslim in Nigeria! Of course, this is bloated lies. That can never be the truth. I know factually that Muslim in Nigeria are not more than 35-40% of Nigeria population. Of course, they make more noise, harass and persecute Christians in the North because they have government support. That is not enough evidence for someone to sit on an armed chair and formulate figures in the name of research. Stop it and shine your eyes! OK?

Yavoh »

Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:52 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

trib, I appreciated that you brought up 1 Peter. Not many associate those verses with the rapture of the church.
Jesus is comning for a pure bride. We know that gold is purified by fire. It is a stressful process. We believers, especially in the US, don't know what stress is. Try convencing the house churches in China or Christians in muslim nations in the middle east and Africa they will not go through tribulation. They are giving up their very lives for the cause of Christ on a daily basis right now. We have lived in a free nation up until now. Soon our religious freedom will be taken away. We will be persecuted. We are not above this, but will be proved by it.
My Lord and Savior went to the Cross for my sins. He was pure and totally without sin, yet he died that horrible, humilating death because of His love for us. The very least I can do for Him, should the need arise, is to die for Him.

Yavoh »

Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:47 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

I have found this discussion quite interesting. The end time events of the bible have always been appealing to me, and I have done a lot of study. I read the left Behind series, and was apauled at how it leads people astray concerning the rapture because I, too believe it will come after the tribulation.

I read this statement on another web site some time back in another discussion of end time events. I wanted to share it with you all;

" Thes 4:16 does not state a time table at all. it is a good, correct statement, but it in no way states the rapture is pre, mid or post trib.
II Thes 2 is clear that the antichrist will take his seat in the Temple and claim he is God before the rapture. OOPS, that's half way through the 7 years!! Maybe PAUL was wrong? Just because Hal Lindsay says otherwise? Oh, my, the Left Behind series must be more powerful than the Word of God, too...OH DEAR, what are we to do now?
How about taking the Bible literally for a change? Is that asking too much?

I Cor 15:52 states the rapture is at the LAST TRUMP. Which trump? The seventh trumpet in Rev... 7th trump sounds,(Rev 11:15) rapture & resurrection, the wrath of God begins. Read Rev 7:9-14, Rev 20:4-6, John 11:24, ''Martha sayeth unto him, I know that he shall rise again [ready?] in the RESURRECTION AT THE LAST DAY.Hummm, she said the Last Day, didn't she!!"
It was signed "Pure Scripture"

This person had taken it on the chin pretty hard with some very rude remarks from pre trib believers. I suppose that is why he/she was a bit sharp.

tribtrooper »

Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:28 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

One more thought, and I promise to stop for now!

KEEP is translated as PROTECT
Jesus prays for protection of His disciples from evil-
''I do not pray that You take them out of the World
But that You KEEP them from the evil ''- John 17:15

The word used for KEEP in John 17 is the SAME word as that used in Revelation...

Jesus promises to protect his disciples from the evils of the tribulation-
''I will KEEP you from the hour of testing''

The Word used for KEEP
is translated as PROTECT

Such Lack of knowledge & thorough research is exactly how error is spread.
People typically take that one verse as proof AND proceed to ignore all of the other texts which indicate a Post trib rapture !
It is pure ERROR as the word KEEP is translated for the Greek as PROTECT
The SAME Word is used in both passages of scripture.

tribtrooper »

Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:26 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

A few thoughts & verses:

Are the words of Jesus nothing ?
Can we not discern the wrath from tribulation? 250,000 of the Bride Of Christ was was fed to the lions in Rome .Rev 14 verses 12,13 and 14 the patience of the saints . Rev 6 verse 10 and 11 also till their fellow servants and brethren should be killed as they were . Where is the privilege that we should escape the trial by fire that others more worthy did not?

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Did Noah get taken out of the world for the flood, or was he protected through it in th Ark? He was protected through it.
Did God remove the Israelites from Egypt, or did He give them warning of the judgements to come so they could prepare? He gave them warnings.
What of the 40 years in the wilderness? did they have to fend for themselves, or did he provide Manna, birds, and water? When they left Egypt there was no infirmity among them. Their clothing and shoes did not wear out in all those years, walking all those miles through the desert because of His divine protection.
We, His children, will be protected diring the tribulation. We will have our needs met. Some believe that when we escape the tribulation there iwll be no illness among us, no infirmity, as with the Israelites. Afterall, He did it then, for a people who were not committed to Him as we believers are. I believe He can and will do it again!

tribtrooper »

Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:29 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

Satan is thrown out of heaven and he comes to earth to make war with the people of God - US. I am struck by how many times the Book of Revelation says "to him who overcomes, I wil give etc etc". It also says that those destined for captivity need to be strong that their captivity will only be for 10 days. Scripture speaks of all those who were beheaded for the Name of Jesus. These are the tribulation saints, along with the multitude who survive the trib to see His glorious coming.

There is not one verse in the entire Bible that states clearly and without a doubt that the rapture will occur before the trib, but there are many ,many more that support a post trib rapture than what I have given here.

I have tried to accept the pretrib rapture. I have studied, listened to pre trib teachers, but their support for that theory comes by taking pasts of verses and mixing them with parts of other verses and throwing in what this or that person said, not what GOD says. People argue that Paul said this or that, but they take it out of context most of the time. As for me, I will rely on what JESUS said, and He said he would return immediately after the tribulation of those days.

There was a book that I read some years ago called something like "Talking a second look at the second coming" written by a preacher who is a former pretribber, and he, through prayer, fasting, and study came to the conclusion that the rapture is in fact after the trib.I have either givent he book away or misplaced it now, and I dont' remember his name, but his writings were true to Scripture as it is written.

Did you know that in Theology schools, if anyone questions the pretrib rapture, they are told to rethink their position or leave? Somehow that doesn't seem right, to threaten someone with expulsion because they dared to form their a different opinion than what was being taught.
Where is the freedom to think for ones self, to seek God's will in all things??

God bless you GraceMan

tribtrooper »

Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:16 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

GraceMan

But you see, the entire great tribulation is not God's wrath! The only judgements spoken of as His wrath are the bowl judgements. some like to say that Matthew 24 was written to the Jews, not the believers. However, Jesus was speaking to his Apostles, and they were certainly believers. Further, Jews or anyone else who does not believe would not be reading Matthew or any other part of the New Testament for that matter. He was speaking to those who are His Chosen. Many of the prophecies in that chapter are happening right now. We can see it all around us. Vs 13 says, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." the end of what? The tribulation of course. Then in verse 22 He says, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." This clearly states that the elect of God are still here. Otherwise, the days of the trib would not be shortened. I understand that millions will be saved during the trib, and that is one of many reasons I believe we are going through the tribulation.

People have been taught that because we're "The Church" we will be zapped out of here before the trib starts. This is not supported in Scripture. they use 1 Thes 4:16 to support their view, but that verse does not state WHEN this event will take place, only that it will. 2 Thes 2, however, is clear that the man of sin will in fact make himself known, will stop the sacrifices, take his seat in the Temple of God, claim to BE God and place a statue of himself on the Temple Mount -- and that we're still here for that event as well.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

continued

GraceMan »

Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:14 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

tribtrooper,

What about 1 Thessalonians 1:10 - And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

And 1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

Looks like we will miss the tribulation.

tribtrooper »

Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:25 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

"For all that think they are Christian, you better make sure you are ready. It would be a terrible thing to miss the rapture and be left behind."

Gotta disagree with you jturning!! After much study I and many others have come to the sometimes uncomfortable conclusion that the rapture is after the tribulation. This is based on many Scriptures included but not limited to matthew 24: 29-31,(Jesus said immediately AFTER the trib of those days...) II Cor 15: 51-52, (at the LAST trumpet - see Rev 11:14-19) and don't forget Rev 20: 4-6 which reads:
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. THE CAME TO LIFE AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST FOR A THOUSAND YEARS.
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in theFIRST RESURRECTION. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
(emphasis mine)

This clearly states that the tribulation saints have part in the FIRST resurrection to life. When one embraces the pretrib theory they believe the resurrection occurs at that time as well, thus the trib saints CANNOT have a part in it, therefore are lost, having only one more resurrection at the end of the 1000 years, and that one is to death.

Therfore, I am a "Tribtrooper"

Blessings to you. Go back and study all of the end of the age Scriptures, including Joel, Daniel Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the New Testament. Do this by clearing you mind of all that you have been taught. Take the Bible verbaitum, as it is written, not what you have been told. Matthew 24, the same as Revelation and the entire Bible is written to BELIEVERS. These Books will not be read by unbelievers, and they will nto be read by the Jewish people until they have their eyes opened to Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

God bless you

Hiskid »

Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:39 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 0

Cameron

I am afraid that I must disagree with you statement that "Islam tolerated Christianity in the Arab world."

In SOME Islamic countries, it is barely tolerated. BUT if a muslim converts to Christianity they are persecuted and even put to death, either by their own familes or the government. Case in point the story right here on CP, "Iranian Female Converts Charged With Apostasy, Spreading Christianity." These young ladies have been in prison for several months, tortured, malnourished and ill.
there are hundreds of stories just like it. too. According to islam, anyone who is not muslim is an infidel and worthy of death. If a mislim converts to Christianity they must be brought back to Islam or put to death. Christians are not safe in most islamic nations even as tourists.

It is the JEWISH people who are considered the people of the Book, not Christians. As Mohammads mental health deteriorated his writings became more violent. What he wrote in the beginning was that Jews were the people of the Book, and he ended up calling for their death and to kill any Christian who would not convert to Islam.

They deny that God has a Son and that Jesus was of a virgin birth. On the Mosque on the Temple Mount is the inscription, "God has no Son". If a muslim follows the writtings of Mohammad he will either covert you or kill you. there are muslims who are not devout just as there are "Christians" who are not devout. Those are the ones who MIGHT be safe to be around.

johnzon »

Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:21 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 5

Reading the anti-Islam comments by Christians reminds me one of the reasons I am not a Christian- too much hate and ignorance.

A.S.Mathew »

Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:55 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

Muslim growth is due to their high birth rate. Radical
Islam has to be feared. India is the 3rd highest
pupulated Muslim country in the world. Where the
Muslim population is not highly concentrated in India,
and if the Muslims are not rich, their religious
views and relationship with their religion is very
shallow. Indeed, they don't know much about their
religion, and these people are very much opened to the
gospel of Christ. There are over 1000 converted Muslisms
as Christian evangelists in India.

As more Hindus are coming to follow Christ, millions of
Muslims are coming to follow Christ due to personal
visions and visitation through the Holy Spirit. The
response to the gospel is very great today in Asia and
Africa, than any other time in history. Indeed this is
the best time to sow and reap.

Cameron »

Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:57 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

Me being a Christian, do not worry about Islam and Muslims, simply because, Islam tolerated Christianity in the Arab world. Today, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine and rest of the Arab world have a tangible number of Christians. Secondly, most muslims consider Christians as "people of the book" as we have New Testament. Thirdly, Muslims believe in Jesus Christ and Qur'an has many positive references to Jesus unlike Judaism. If we are receding in population, it is simply because we are afraid of having more children due to fear of poverty and loss of our own financial status. That is wrong and wrong perception.

The best way to preserve Christianity would be to follow the commands of Gospel which Jesus wanted us to do. Revere more about Jesus's teachings and be a true Christian. Unfortunately, Christians of today (not all) are due to their race rather than by commitment. Thanks God, quite a few Christians are on righteous path by following humble path of Jesus.

rj78 »

Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:29 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 2

Full Gospel-

I respectfuly disagree with you.

Forcing your views on others and degrading your women is not humility. Islam is the type of religion that God finds useless (see James 1:27).

Also, Islam builds its foundation on human principles, not Christ (Col. 2:8). They have a form of godliness but deny its source (2 Tim. 2:3). They have nothing to teach us.

GraceMan »

Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:26 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

"Nearly one out of every four persons in the world today is Muslim." Not for long, according to the estimates of their own leaders nearly 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity a year.

FullGospel »

Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:57 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

It's interesting that Muslims live humbly and do not believe in birth control and partial-birth abortion, while here in the so-called civilized world, we continue to kill our own, even within Christianity. Perhaps this is God giving us a wake-up call, and a lesson in humility.

tpique1 »

Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 1

chicago24,

No, you should expect them to be taught Christianity, the founding religion of this great and unique nation. Islam would NEVER have conceived a nation like America, nor hinduism, buddhism or atheism. Only Judeo/Christianity affords us the inalienable rights endowed by our Creator.

In Saudi Arabia you would NEVER be afforded the privileges you have in America - to worship openly and freely no matter your religion.

rj78 »

Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:34 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 2

This means that one in four people in the world follow a hate-filled, delusional faith that degrades women and demands they kill all who disagree with them.

chicago24-

Of course they'll teach Islam. It's a religion. The grace of God in Jesus Christ is not religion, but a means of walking with God.

Liberals like you will continue to be vexed at the power of God even as you deny Him.

tpique1 »

Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:33 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

Matthew 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

jturning »

Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:08 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Here's the religion of the antichrist shaping up before our very eyes. And the Muslims are waiting for their Messiah to come who will spread Islam throughout the whole world. You can see it coming together for the Tribulation period and finally the Day of the Lord.

For all that think they are Christian, you better make sure you are ready. It would be a terrible thing to miss the rapture and be left behind.

Online4Him »

Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:22 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

"Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few" (Matthew 9:37).

rolln4him »

Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:16 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Oh, yeah! Those 144,000 virgins is awfully tempting- LOL!

chicago24 »

Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:42 am Agree: 7   Disagree: 8

As I've said before, if you demand that religion be taught in public schools, then you should be prepared for your great-grandchildren to be taught Islam rather than Christianity.