Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Church|Tue, Nov. 10 2009 06:45 PM EDT

Christians Rediscover Liturgies for Evangelism

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

Todd Hunter has stumbled upon something he believes is bringing former Christians back to church and has the potential to draw the unchurched.

  • Passing of peace
    (Photo: Anglican Church in North America)
    Anglicans at the June 2009 assembly of the Anglican Church in North America pass the peace.
close
Todd Hunter clip from AMIA 2009 Winter Conference on Anglican Mission

Liturgy.

Though liturgies have existed for hundreds of years, Hunter believes churches can employ those traditions for the present mission field.

"I feel like I'm 20 years late to Robert Webber's party," he said at the National Outreach Convention last week in San Diego, Calif. Webber, who dubbed the term "ancient future worship," had called churches to blend contemporary worship styles with the liturgical practices of the early church.

Hunter, who is currently a bishop in the Anglican Mission In the Americas, had recently come across friends who found their Christian faith being restored through liturgies.

"I genuinely stumbled into this," said the Anglican bishop who had grown up in the United Methodist Church.

Two dechurched friends told Hunter they had never kneeled before in their life as a believer and found that kneeling was rewiring their souls. Another friend said reciting creeds is making his faith come alive.

And when he met with a young adult who frequents parties and with whom he is well acquainted with, he received a vision that if she and others around her age just prayed the Prayer of Confession week after week, it would rewire their moral thinking.

When he was involved in the emerging church movement, Hunter found that there was a fascination among postmoderns with the past. Now a part of the Anglican Communion, he's discovering that liturgy can be used as a tool for evangelism.

"My sense is that there is a momentum, a hunger and that we're sort of tapping into it, I think," Hunter explained to The Christian Post. "I think we might be synergistically working with it (momentum)."

Hunter discovered the value of the "liturgical treasure chest" in the Anglican tradition after he was ordained in March and then consecrated as bishop in September. Formerly linked to the United Methodist Church, the seeker movement, the emerging church and the Vineyard Churches, Hunter had not planned on journeying into Anglicanism.

Though planning for retirement, he was asked by Bishop Chuck Murphy of Anglican Mission In the Americas to lead a new initiative – called Churches for the Sake of Others – of planting 200 missional churches primarily on the West Coast, where younger adults and Americans are much less likely to believe in God, in 20 years. The churches would be aimed at drawing the unchurched and the dechurched of an increasingly postmodern and post-Christian generation.

And the churches' practices would be "ancient tradition inspiring future followers of Jesus for the sake of others."

How it looks in action

At Holy Trinity Church, which was set up just over a month ago in Orange County, Calif., Hunter wears a stole and leads the congregation in the reading of the Word, reciting the Nicene Creed, saying the Prayers of the People, and the Eucharist. But before administering the practices, he tries to explain the significance of each and in a language that the dechurched and unchurched could understand.

When he first put on the traditional vestments, he explained to the congregation that it was a stole and that Jesus set the example by putting a towel around him and washing the disciples' feet. The stole was thus symbolic of him as a servant and the church as a community taking up the towel of Jesus. Hunter discovered that a simple explanation like that blew people away. Continue »

Pages: 12
Sort by: Newest | Oldest | Agree | Disagree
All comments on this page are subject to our Terms of Use and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Christian Post or its staff.
  • Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:33 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    “Sacred Tradition began the moment the Apostles began teaching after the death of Christ”

    Here we go again with these circular arguments…..You make a claim for apostolic tradition without demonstrating apostolic pronouncements for these traditions. Where are the biblical references that show the apostles giving specific traditions?


    “Sacred Tradition predates Sacred Scripture and holds a position of equal footing with the Word.”

    Not so; this is another presumptuous claim without biblical support.


    “Neither stands on its own, nor was it meant to”

    Wrong again…..The Word of God has and continues to stand on its own….It has not contradicted itself like Romanism has.


    “When you've had 2000 years to build your base…”

    Another pseudo claim without proof….You have yet to prove that the Roman Church and the New Testament Church are the same. Anyone who has an adequate knowledge of history and the Scriptures knows full well that they are not one and the same.

  • Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:10 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Cheisa,

    >>"See what I mean about that knee jerk question?">>

    A GOOD QUESTION UNANSWERED and one you don't really want to consider honestly.

    You deny the definition of narrow gate?

    Mat 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are *many* who go in by it."

    Mat 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are *few* who find it.

    The Catholic/Anglican Church is the very definition of wide and there are "many" who go in by it, as you boast.

    Nothing here about the gates of hell prevailing against the Church, only a few will seek to enter the narrow gate because of it's difficulty. The many are the majority who favor their comfy religious rituals and establishing their own righeousness apart from God.

    Still no Scripture for the "might makes right" argument you and others propose?

    The Bible teaches quite the opposite.

  • Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:14 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    "Find the verse in the Bible where might is right. That numbers of adherents indicaes the true Gospel...where is it?"

    See what I mean about that knee jerk question? How can a situation that exists in the 21st century be found in the Bible? And the might makes right is your phrase, not mine. I'd like to look at "and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it" in reference to the age old history and continuing growth of the Catholic Church. Now that's in the Bible.

  • Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:10 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Online,

    Sacred Tradition began the moment the Apostles began teaching after the death of Christ. Their teachings were spread orally and passed on that way before the NT was finally made canonical in the 4th century. Sacred Tradition predates Sacred Scripture and holds a position of equal footing with the Word. Neither one nor the other is complete alone because neither holds the entirety of God's revelation. They are like a pair of gloves. You can get by with one, but you're really meant to have both for the best effect.

    So it isn't either Tradition or Scripture. There are too many overlapping areas of faith to leave either one out of the picture and think you have the whole picture. Neither stands on it's won, nor was it meant to.

    And you're right, numbers don't mean everything, but when you've had 2000 years to build your base, it shows in the numbers. Of course, not having any competition for 1500 years does tilt the scale a bit, but that's life.

  • Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:03 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    By the way delight, I wondered, did that answer your question?

  • Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:00 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Actually, nobody can explain the trinity, it really is beyond human comprehension however a little understanding of it helps one to understand what the phrase God incarnate means a little deeper and stops Christians from concentrating of Jesus deity to the detriment of his humanity and vice versa. Well at least that's what my meditations on it have lead me to discover.

  • Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:50 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    steveh20,

    So, if someone can explain the doctrine of the Trinity to you...this helps you HOW?

  • Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:23 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "So Steveh20 says, " I'd be very interested to hear you expand on how Jesus".... >>>

    I'd be glad to "expand" however the "Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing". I have not seen anywhere in your postings here that you are anything but perishing."

    Okay delight, lets go for the whole quote shall we...

    "So using the Bible talk to me about the co substantial relation between the father and the son within the Trinity, I'd be very interested to hear you expand on how Jesus was of one substance with the father, begotten not made....(obviously you will disagree with that very last part because it is from the creeds and not the Bible, which goes into great depth about the Trinity)"

    Feel free to judge my spiritual state, but if you notice I was actually discussing the matter of the trinity and the relationship of the father and the son within it (which has quite a bearing on the matter of salvation). It quite a complex subject and the early church creeds are the outcome of the church fathers trying to deal with it in the light of verses in the Gospels. I'm sorry that you did not feel you could discuss a complex matter such as it and rather took the opportunity to write about me, a much less interesting subject
    BW

    Steve

  • Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:31 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Excerpts from LCMS liturgies:
    "If we say we are without sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

    "Lord now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word. For mine eyes have seen thy salvation which thou hast prepared before the face of all people. A light to lighten the gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel".

    "Create in me a clean heart o God, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy spirit, and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, and renew me with thy free spirit."

    "Oh come let us sing unto the lord, let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms"

    Words of men indeed.

  • Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:44 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    So Steveh20 says, " I'd be very interested to hear you expand on how Jesus".... >>>

    I'd be glad to "expand" however the "Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing". I have not seen anywhere in your postings here that you are anything but perishing.

    ***********************

    >>"You might want to talk to the Anglicans and Orthodox who are in the process of entering into full communion with the Catholic Church as well. Million of them. They'd be annoyed at being excluded from your list of Christians.>>"

    Find the verse in the Bible where might is right. That numbers of adherents indicaes the true Gospel...where is it? I'll raise you one narrow gate for your "millions" who are departing from the Truth and are going the wide way that leads to destruction.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:55 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    “This is not an either or situation, Tradition or Biblical.”

    On the contrary, when one makes the claim that certain beliefs were handed down by the apostles then it does become an either or situation….


    “Except for the 1.3 billion Christians of the Catholic Church. Oops...”

    Truth is never determined by the number of adherents a particular group may have; if this is the case than Islam who recently surpassed Christian bodies in numbers can claim that they alone are the true faith….

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:49 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    Delight,

    You might want to talk to the Anglicans and Orthodox who are in the process of entering into full communion with the Catholic Church as well. Million of them. They'd be annoyed at being excluded from your list of Christians.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:47 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    "Then that would mean Catholicism has lost the Christian audience."

    Except for the 1.3 billion Christians of the Catholic Church. Oops..

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Ok, let me try to explain this one more time. This is not an either or situation, Tradition or Biblical. Take Baptism. It is clearly Biblical, taught by Christ and the Apostles and their successors.

    Infant baptism. Not explicitly stated in the Bible, not mentioned at all really, but the Church took the concept of Baptism and extended it to infants. Still the same Sacrament, still biblical, but different than the adult Baptism that we read about in Scripture.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:39 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Delight..

    So using the Bible talk to me about the co substantial relation between the father and the son within the Trinity, I'd be very interested to hear you expand on how Jesus was of one substance with the father, begotten not made....(obviously you will disagree with that very last part because it is from the creeds and not the Bible, which goes into great depth about the Trinity)

    Personally I think you are chucking out the baby with the bath water.

    Thanks

    Steve

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:36 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    >>"Actually, you lose your audience by making a claim without substantiating it . . .">>

    Then that would mean Catholicism has lost the Christian audience.

    This may be apparent by the lack of success in trying to put Bible believing Christians under a Catholic/Anglican yoke of bondage.

    No sale. Christ alone saves.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:25 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Cheisa,

    You said, “Tradition doesn't have to have 100% Biblical support, only a suggestion or concept of it is needed” & “…so quoting verses wouldn't be satisfactory, anyway.”

    If this is your position then it is futile for you to continually claim and insist that certain traditions were handed down by the apostles without proving it from their epistles . . .

    You also said, “I've lost my audience as soon as I say that it doesn't have to say it in the Bible.”

    Actually, you lose your audience by making a claim without substantiating it . . .

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:47 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    >>"Having only the Bible".>>

    Like His WORD to us is insufficent?

    How can you claim Christ indwells you and yet make that kind of statement?

    We've come full circle here, you disbelieve an Almighty God is able to sustain His WORD without the "help" of man.

    Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?"

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:31 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    Online,

    I don't believe God appreciaites anything that is not done in Spirit and Truth, including, but not limited to worship.

    The Bible tells us to be baptized, to receive the Eucharist and that the Apostles were to teach and those teachers were to teach in succession. Oral tradition. The way the Word was spread and the Church was built in the beginning.

    Tradition doesn't have to have 100% Biblical support, only a suggestion or concept of it is needed. The Church is empowered by Christ to take it from there, so quoting verses wouldn't be satisfactory, anyway. Take the Rapture. Unbiblical? The word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible, but the concept of it does. Tradition aften falls into that same area of lacking exact phrasing, but having a supportive concept.

    In the end we're not going to convince each other of the validity of too many contested items of faith because we come from two different places. I've lost my audience as soon as I say that it doesn't have to say it in the Bible.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    Delight,

    Having only the Bible to guide you lets me forget about the awful misinterpretations you make about Scripture and the practices of the Church. Too many mistakes to mention, but here's a couple of corrections.

    "It's the inner communion with God that is important. If you're worship gets you there, that's all that counts."
    If you truly believe this, then why isn't it enough to have His indwelling power alone working in and through us?"

    I can have that indwelling power and receive the grace of the Eucharist and communal prayer and worship as well. I can have the human connection with the Body of Christ by contiunuing the prayers and rites that they established centuries ago. I can have that sense of belonging, not only to God, but to also my Christian predecessors. As history connects us with people and events of our past, I am connected to religious people and events of the Church's past. That connectivity strengthens my faith and, as such, is a good thing. It doesn't replace God dwelling within me, but gives me a sense that those Christians who came before me felt that same joy and they spoke the same words and acted out the same rites that I do. It tells me, very concretely, that I am truly connected to God and the entire Body of Christ since He sent His Son to save us. The desire to know your past is a very human trait and that past didn't end with the last Gospel.

    Priests do not have the power to do anything. That power comes from God and priests know this. That is not arrogance on their part because they know are tools of God, not a source of Godly power themselves.

    Again, Jesus said, "is" when he held up the bread and "is" when He held up the wine at the :Last Supper. That's enough Biblical support for me.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Correction, WINE not water.

    Steve says,

    >>"Okay delight, use the Holy Spirit (whatever that might mean), but If you don't know and understand the creeds then really you are ignorant of the Christian faith and its history.">>

    Ignorance, indeed but only your own!

    How can a creed replace the Power of the Holy Spirit? Is Christ sufficent or does an intellectual understanding of history and the "christian faith" save you from your sin?

    It's much easier to believe what man says is right, in ignorance, than to submit oneself to God and His Righeousness in faith.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:23 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    Cheisa,

    So many words you use to defend Tradition in opposition to the simplicity of sound biblical doctrine. You cannot convince me that "tradition" is not man-made and I have no confusion as to WHAT prayer is...and it is not repeating words in a mindless fashion, as in the recitation of a rosary or "engineered" through liturgies.

    Prayer comes about through the anguish of our spirits, not in reciting script.

    Let's keep relationship very simple as God has intended.

    Jesus Christ is a Person, not a wafer of bread. As a Person, He indwells and guides His elect on a daily basis, not in the digestion of a wafer of bread. He does not pour Himself into inanimate objects made by men, to be thereby controlled by the whims and desires of men who seek miracles, signs and wonders.

    If you think of your Eucharist as a miracle, then it is one NOT originated by God but through the manipulation of men conjuring God to perform in a religious service. How arrogant of your priests to believe they have the power to conjure the miraclulous on demand and reduce the Living Christ to a ceremonial piece of bread. This is NOT relationship. Stick to dining with bread and water in the Scriptural sense, done in gratitude and in memory of His Work on the Cross, not in actuality, supposing the wafer is really a god. You genuflect in vain worship before a metal box containing wafered bread and suppose you are "accepting the unprovable" in devotion to Christ. You say, " It's the inner communion with God that is important. If you're worship gets you there, that's all that counts."
    If you truly believe this, then why isn't it enough to have His indwelling power alone working in and through us? Why do you demand of Christ to inhabit your sacrificial bread? If what you say is true, then why would a Eucharist even be necessary, if Christ indeed dwells in you?

    The fact is, Cheisa, you have no Scriptural basis for Transubstantation; Scripture calls for the elect to assemble, take bread and wine in rememberance of Him, until the time comes when we will dine with Him in the Heavenlies at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb.

    Religion turns devotion to Christ into observance of various laws, rules, traditions and other outward observances; much like climbing a ladder of status and simple devotion to Christ becomes eclipsed by layers upon layers of religious dogma and tradition.

    I, as most who have been born into the Body of Christ, would not trade the Living God for dead religion at anytime. We understand what Christ has warned the Pharisees of and we steer clear of anything more than pure devotion to Christ within us and we worship God in spirit and in Truth, not through demonstrations of miraculous signs and wonders performed by men on stage at the local Catholic and Anglican church every Sunday.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:37 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

    Cheisa said, “The earliest Traditions are not debatable when the Apostles and and belief.”

    Please, name the books, chapters and verses for each of these rites, rituals, and traditions that were supposedly taught by the apostles . . . Where can we read of these “core” traditions?


    You said, "...reformation- that people began opening these beliefs up for debate..."

    Wrong; many of the church fathers debated your traditions . . .


    “It's the inner communion with God that is important.”

    I agree, this is my whole point; God seeks communion with his people….I am sure that he does not enjoy repetitious rituals or prayers that are not done in Spirit and in Truth.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:08 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    No genius in making a potpourri of various religious practices but I'd be very interested in how Hunter "tries to explain" the damnable doctrine of the "Eucharist" to the "de-churched". From "genius" to the realm of magician, abracadabra, bread into the actual flesh of Christ; there is simply no explanation for that. Nor reason, as Christ died once for all and the LORD'S supper is done in * remembrance *, not in a magical act of substituting His Body for earthly bread, as in a re-sacrifice.( Men cannot conjure and manipulate God in this way.)

    Delight,

    Again, you're confusing what is man made with what comes from God. Christ is the One who told us, "This is My Body, do this in memory of Me." Man didn't create those words, Christ did. The Church is following through on His command. We do it in remembrance and we don't argue with Jesus that this is, indeed, His Body and Blood. Jesus didn't use "like", "as" or "represents." Jesus said, "is."

    And you might think belief in the real presence is magic, but we prefer to think of it as a miracle and a mystery that only God, not man, can explain. But that's the basis of faith, accepting the unprovable that is achieved through the power of Almighty God.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:01 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    "The true worship of God is declared to be “they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”"

    Online, I wonder why people think that because formal prayer and rites are a part of worship that, somehow, dilutes its sincerity or makes it an invalid form of worship. Many find that these outward signs of worship actually bring them closer to God and make worship more fulfilling. That formal worship isn't found in the NT is not surprising, but it's neither here nor there. The NT addresses the roots of worship and so long as the purpose and meaning of worship is compatible with those teachings, it isn't a matter of great importance what exact outward forms worship takes. It's the inner communion with God that is important. If you're worship gets you there, that's all that counts.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:40 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    Delight,

    You confuse real prayer with "vain repetitions." And, actually, Mark was addressing the practices of the Jewish religion, not Christianity.

    And Tradition is not man made. The NT is [part of Tradition since it existed as oral teaching, passed down from Christ to the Apostles, then to their successors before it was written down. And even after the texts appeared, they had to be sorted by the Church as to which were inspired by the Holy Spirit. After that determination was made, the Canon was, finally, established. The NT did not exist as a codified work until the 4th century. Tradition is the mechanism by which the Word was spread and taught prior to the establishment of the NT.
    Tradition also encompasses the practices and beliefs of the early Church, of the first Christians. Many come directly from the Apostles, others from their disciples. This knowledge of the early Church is what validates many of our practices and beliefs today and Tradition is what makes this knowledge possible. Before you use man made as a slander, remember that Christ entrusted His Church to men, to the Apostles to teach all nations. Christ knew that these men would be guided by the Holy Spirit so His Church would endure and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Man made is not a slander. Even the NT is man made if you don't consider that the men who assembled it were guided by the Holy Spirit acting within them. Tradition is no different.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:28 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    Online,
    The earliest Traditions are not debatable when the Apostles and and belief.1st and 2nd century writers speak of them as common beliefs and practices of the Christian community of the day. They were obviously part of the accepted core of Christian teaching and belief. It is only much later - read, reformation- that people began opening these beliefs up for debate, reinterpreting Scripture and the meaning of these age old practices based on Christian teaching.

    People debate the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist when that was, clearly, accepted as true from the first days and corroborated through the first centuries by one writer after another. Only much later did the debate begin over "This is My Body.." not meaning, "this is My Body", but something else.

    You are right in that some Church Traditions were established later, but the core has been present from the start

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:32 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    Okay delight, use the Holy Spirit (whatever that might mean), but If you don't know and understand the creeds then really you are ignorant of the Christian faith and its history.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:10 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

    "Learning the creeds and prayers strengthens faith and really does rewire the brain to live by faith."

    Rewire the brain to strengthen faith?
    No thanks, I'd rather depend on the Holy Spirit to strengthen mine.

    Only cults are interested in "rewiring" your brain.

    Mat 6:7 "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words."

    You want true Liturgy...memorize and live out Scripture! That is true worship.

    You want man-made philosphy...repeat the words of men and call it "tradition".

    "People think I'm a genius," Hunter said." (such humility)

    No genius in making a potpourri of various religious practices but I'd be very interested in how Hunter "tries to explain" the damnable doctrine of the "Eucharist" to the "de-churched". From "genius" to the realm of magician, abracadabra, bread into the actual flesh of Christ; there is simply no explanation for that. Nor reason, as Christ died once for all and the LORD'S supper is done in * remembrance *, not in a magical act of substituting His Body for earthly bread, as in a re-sacrifice.( Men cannot conjure and manipulate God in this way.)

    Here's another gem from this article, "Liturgy, rather, is the work or action of the people."

    Compare that with "Salvation is of the LORD".

    And another gem I couldn't restist; "We're going to engineer these churches..."

    Men engineering church makes a for a dead church without the leadership of the Spirit.
    WHO, by the way is not mentioned in this fluffy, religious article.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:09 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

    Bujo,

    I agree that liturgy can be helpful in remembering what one believes as a Christian, however, seeing that there is no prescribed form of public worship recorded in the New Testament one cannot give a definite description on how worship should be; true worship comes from the heart. As I stated earlier, “We all” must be cautious that our worship does not become a cycle of “vain repetitions” . . . We must worship in spirit and in truth. I am not saying that one cannot worship in spirit and in truth in the context of liturgical worship; I am cautioning and describing what many have experienced in general.

  • Bujo »
    Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:17 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Online,

    I think everything about the early Church (and I'm using that word to talk about all of christedom) is debateable. From the formation of the canon to the books of the Bible themselves; it's hard to put down hard facts when things are that old. Which is why liturgy is so helpful in remembering what we believe as Christians.

    Liturgy rest upon the foundation laid by those who've gone before, strenghtens us while we live our lives today, and gives us hope for the future through the love of Christ.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:26 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    Cheisa,

    Things must have certainly changed within Catholicism because when I was a member the Word of God was not taught nor did anything like evangelism ever come out from the rites, rituals, and traditions of the church. As you well know the claim that they (the traditions of the church) have been since the first days of Christianity is debatable . . .

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:22 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    Bujo,

    Thank you. So many see prayers,creeds and rites as meaningless repetition when they are actually inspiring and help replant your feet in faith. I think part of that is knowing your expressing your faith and belief using the same words that Christians have used across the centuries, tying us to our ancestors in the Body of Christ.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:20 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Wilderness,

    I agree 100%.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:17 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    Online

    "reading/teaching God’s Word, prayer, praise, evangelism, baptism and the Lord’s Supper."

    This sounds just like the tradition and liturgy I know. Rites, rituals and traditions do not "substitute the true worship of God." They are a part of it as they have been since the first days of Christianity.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:10 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

    There is not a prescribed form of public worship in the New Testament; however, there is emphasis upon reading/teaching God’s Word, prayer, praise, evangelism, baptism and the Lord’s Supper. We all must be cautious not to allow rituals, repetitious prayers, responses, and motions to substitute the true worship of God. The true worship of God is declared to be “they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24).

  • Bujo »
    Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:13 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    I grew up in the SBC. The first time I went to United Methodist church that had liturgy I was blown away. My best friend in high school's dad was the Episcopal minister in my hometown and I grew to love that church.

    Liturgy can be a beautiful and meaningful activity of coporate worship. Learning the creeds and prayers strengthens faith and really does rewire the brain to live by faith.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:47 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. -Col 2:8

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:12 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    Good link, Fullgospel. The early Church Fathers show through their writings what the early Church believed and practiced. They show where liturgy and tradition come from and that their meanings stem from the Word and teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. If Christians have doubts about the validity of certain Christian teachings, they should consult the early Church Fathers, the disciples of the Apostles and see that the beliefs and customs practiced today have their origins in the early Church. The Fathers support what the Apostles taught from their time with Christ and enlighten us on the beliefs of the early Church. And they do it in a way that isn't detailed in the Gospels because these men were forced to explain and defend Christianity as philosophers against a range of foes from the Empire to heretics and pagans. They have much to teach us as they taught the early Church.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:23 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Bravo, I say. Clearly the work of the Holy Spirit. If you want to read a description of the early Christian Liturgy, just click on this link:
    http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm
    and see Chapter 67 of these writings from 155 AD.
    Justin Martyr learned Christianity from Polycarp, who learned it from the Apostle John.

Please help us to monitor our message boards by flagging comments that are unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable.
Contact Us if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Comment on this story
ID Password

Don't have a Christian Post ID? Signing up is easy. Click Here

  • icon1
  • icon2
  • icon3
  • icon4
  • icon5
The Christian Post reserves the right to terminate the account of any User who violates our Terms of Use.
Also on CP
Advertisement
Advertisement
CP Shopping
  • Jewelry
  • Health
  • Church
  • Gifts
  • Coins

Bracelets | Chains | Crosses | Earrings | Gemstone |

Featured contents & Giveaways
Joolwe :
Cross-pendant necklace
Bethany House Publishers

It was a balmy California evening. I had gone for a jog before I was to speak at a leadership conference. I still can't recall how I got there, but I found myself sitting on a curb

Featured Advertiser Links