Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Society|Thu, Jun. 11 2009 09:55 AM EDT

D.C. Pastors Argue to Let Voters Decide on Gay Marriage

By Nathan Black|Christian Post Reporter

Pastors and other traditional marriage advocates made arguments on Wednesday in support of allowing voters in Washington, D.C., to decide on whether to recognize same-sex marriages performed elsewhere.

"The people of the District of Columbia should have the right to determine how marriage will be recognized in their district," said Brian Raum, senior legal counsel of the Alliance Defense Fund.

Raum contended before the D.C. Board of Elections and Ethics that a referendum would not violate the District's Human Rights Act, which prohibits discrimination against minority groups, including gays and lesbians.

Under D.C. law, referendums cannot violate the act, which was approved in 1977.

Arguing that the act does was never intended to extend to same-sex marriage, Raum said, "The issue before us is not whether same-sex marriage is good or bad policy, but whether who gets to decide this critical moral and social issue."

"The proponents believe the people should decide," he said, as reported by The Washington Post.

Wednesday's hearing lasted four hours as proponents and opponents of a referendum made their case. Last month, the Washington, D.C. Council voted 12-1 to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states. Traditional marriage supporters want voters to accept or reject the council's decision.

Leading the push for a ballot initiative is Bishop Harry Jackson of Hope Christian Church in Beltsville, Md., and a group of primarily African American ministers.

"I’m not against anybody’s individual rights," Jackson said. "But I am against changing societal structure."

But taking the same-sex marriage legislation to the people for a vote "will give vent to public homophobia," said Philip E. Pannell, a Democratic Party activist, according to The Washington Post.

"Unfortunately, in our society, it is still acceptable in many polite circles to vilify and victimize gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people," he said.

The Rev. Dale Wafer of The Harvest church in Northeast Washington, however, stated that they just want the opportunity for the people to debate.

"All we are asking for is a public debate," Wafer said.

The same-sex marriage bill is being reviewed by Congress for approval. Meanwhile, a decision by the elections board on whether a referendum is appropriate for the ballot is expected Friday or early next week.

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  • Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Thanks Prophet, it did help.

    I just the remember people in my old church with a message form God and it didn't seem like God speaking to me, it sounded confused and never came true, but I know that doesn't mean that prophets are not around today, it just means that I have never personally met one.

    I used to see images in my mind of thing's a lot of them were to do with Israel and since I've stopped speaking in tongues I don't get them so clear.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:59 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    hman, for one your not Jesus Christ and in fact you have yet to share any valid biblical support for your perverted views of the scriptures. The best you can do is refer to the minority view that Lazarus was the beloved disciple which cannot be proven biblically and which really doesn't matter since if it were true has no impact on God's truths with regards to His original and only design for marriage and sexual intimacy which clearly show that both same-sex marriage and the sexual practices of homosexuality are clearly sin in the sight of God and then you rely on books like secret mark which are totally false and when people show you biblically that your so-called contradictions such as Joseph having a different father named for him in Matthew as opposed to Luke you just choose to ignore it when in fact every commentary I've read shares the exact same reason why there are two different names because one is the lineage of Joseph and the other the lineage of Mary. You make all these claims for the sole purpose of perverting and then discounting the Word of God in order to justify the sins of homosexuality. And ironically you can find no valid scripture to show where homosexuality is condoned and/or ordained by God anywhere in God's Word.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:18 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Brit,

    I've talked with you enough to know that you wouldn't say anything to cause trouble. LOL. You have a gentle spirit about you.

    Ephesians 4 says "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ..."


    That is why. And why God needs prophet is another question. If you read my response to homosexual man at 5:13 pm, you'd see what I perceive the office of a prophet is.

    In the Old Testament, Israel had the Law (Ten Commandments). It seemed easy enough, right? Ten simple steps to a righteous life. But Israel, being comprised of sinful man, was prone to sinning. Not just sinning, but turning completely from God and chasing idols, ignoring God's commandments. God, most often, used prophets to turn their hearts back towards God, though many times in a not-so-nice way.
    Today, we are not under bondage to the law, but we still have the church following idols and false doctrines. Prosperity message, cheap grace, humanism, post-modernism, seeker-friendly churches, among many others. God uses prophets today to turn the Church back to him.
    Another way God uses prophets to edify the church is through the gifts. Hearing God speak through a prophet to you is like hearing God Himself. It gives people a sense of security knowing that God is still there, and still wants to talk to them. Usually, that attitude comes from those who have no, or little, prayer life, though even I enjoy receiving from another prophet from time to time. Doing so doesn't mean you're weak, but if you are constantly seeking out prophets to speak to you, there may be something wrong.
    The gifts of discernment, knowledge, wisdom, and miracles (which are often a part of a prophet's ministry) brings edification to the church. Even when speaking judgement upon the church a prophet will use the word "but". I can explain that later.
    I hope that helps.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Prophet this is a genuine question, I'm not trying to cause trouble, but please could you tell me why we need prophets today, when we have all we need in the Bible.

    Goodnight, it's very late here.

    I'll look forward to reading your answer in the morning, God willing.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Homosexual man,

    It started as something in my spirit telling me that I was different; had a calling. I've always been different. I've always been very personable and friendly; had many acquaintances that called me friend, but only had a few that I truly called friend. I remember distinctly one time, at a church social function, surrounded by friends. Sitting at a table with people and talking with them, but feeling so alone and separate from them. It was weird. But I was never sad or depressed about it.
    Later, a prophet spoke over me about my ministry as a prophet. I felt at peace about that. I told no one. And over the next ten years or so, I have had others, who did not know me, much less my calling, speak the same thing to me. So basically, it was a personal impression that was confirmed a number of times by a number of different people.

    I am still waiting to walk in the fulness of my ministry. I have spoken in words of wisdom and prophecy on occasion. But God is still grooming me for the ministry. Much of my "teachings" are either deep or extremely challenging to the typical pew sitter, so finding room to present the Word is difficult. I am preaching at my church in August.
    But mainly, my wife and I are just doing whatever we can find to do around the church minstry-wise. Right now we are starting up a marriage counseling ministry. We still feel separated from others. Everyone at our church love us, but we, for some unknown reason, have a hard time making friendships, no matter what we do. But God already told me that's the way it would be.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Thanks Prophet. So how did you come to know that you are a prophet? And since then, what has your role been? hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "I know about prophets in the Bible. Prophecy did not mean foretelling the future. In fact that was condemned by Jewish tradition as sorcery."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That is incorrect. It was not condemned. For even the prophets of old foretold of the Messiah, and the priests and pharisees knew and looked for the prophecy to be fulfilled (although they missed it). They didn't condemn the foretelling of the future as sorcery. They may have done so with people who WERN'T prophets, but the prophecies of prophets were respected. Many kings even sought out the prophets to give them direction and prophecy about things such as wars and such.
    But you are right that prophets aren't just about "foretelling" (though they do that from time to time), but in the new dispensation their role is to bring back the Church unto truth. They tend to be more forward and blunt than, say, a pastor. Pastors and teachers usually, for the most part, don't rock the boat. But prophets don't speak such comforting words often. That is why many Christians don't like them. And that is why in the Old Testament they weren't liked either. Read Isaiah sometime. He wasn't very kind to the children of Israel. Someone once said that prophets are God's "whipping stick" for His people. Not sure I would put it quite that way, but I can see how that would fit.
    Prophets usually do work in the gifts of wisdom, prophecy (foretelling), discernment, and miracles. And as prophets, they are held to a higher standard than many others because of their connection to God. "To whom much is given, much is required."
    I didn't ask to be a prophet. And knowing now what I know, I would never ask to be one. It sounds glamorous, but it is the farthest thing from that as you can get. But I have given up my right to be what I want to be. I deserve nothing, not even the grace of God.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show ''I also know about Mormon and muslim prophets.'' Brit wrote: "LOL." Whut? Is Prophet a Mormon? A muslim? I don't know! That's why I'm asking. hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ''I also know about Mormon and muslim prophets.''

    LOL.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "Just making an observation." OK, so you've made it. Now can you tell us / me about being a prophet ? What's it all about? :-) hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show believer wrote: "hman, your only point is to try and pervert and discount God's Word" believer, remember that's the same thing they said to Jesus. :-) My point is to counter the notion that there can be no Chstianity outside the very narrow range of thought that is being presented in some of these threads. The dominant themes we see here are not even remotely representative of Christianity, to say nothing of Jesus himself. hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ""You really don't know much about prophets do you."

    Again, you seem to choose the attack route rather than the conversation route."

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    No. No attack here. Just making an observation.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "You really don't know much about prophets do you." Again, you seem to choose the attack route rather than the conversation route. I know about prophets in the Bible. Prophecy did not mean foretelling the future. In fact that was condemned by Jewish tradition as sorcery. Instead it meant something closer to what we would call giving a good sermon. I also know about Mormon and muslim prophets. No doubt there are other kinds I don't know about. So instead of staying ignorant, I am trying to become educated by asking you. :-) So, which type of prophet are you? hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    hman, your only point is to try and pervert and discount God's Word to legitamize the sins of homosexuality and whether or not John or Lazarus is Christ's beloved disciple changes nothing with regards to the truths taught in God's Word.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ''Nice Brit. Very "christian" of you.''
    Blah, blah, blah.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ""why do you call yourself "Prophet"? "

    "Because I was called of God to be one."

    Do you have some examples of your prophecy? What do you consider prophecy to be?"


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You really don't know much about prophets do you. That's one of those "prejudices" you were speaking about.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show BRIT72 wrote: "Maybe he wants to murder you too." Nice Brit. Very "christian" of you. hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show believer wrote: "biblical evidence points to John the Apostle being Christ's beloved disciple. But even if it were to be found that Lazarus was indeed Christ's beloved disciple other than trying to justify the sins of homosexuality with it what's your point?" Thanks believer, that is a good question. Personally I do not agree that biblical evidence supports the notion that it was John the Apostle. My point is that there is much that is in the Bible that is not merely misunderstood but aggressively ignored. We are given some platitudes and we utterly refuse to consider that they may not be correct. Then we start justifying prejudices against our fellow human beings with the claim that "everybody knows that etc." hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "why do you call yourself "Prophet"? " "Because I was called of God to be one." Do you have some examples of your prophecy? What do you consider prophecy to be? hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    hman, while you are correct that some believe that it was Lazarus who was Christ's beloved disciple, both Church tradition and biblical evidence points to John the Apostle being Christ's beloved disciple. But even if it were to be found that Lazarus was indeed Christ's beloved disciple other than trying to justify the sins of homosexuality with it what's your point?

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    hman, Lazarus is the Greek form of the Hebrew word, Elazar which means God is helper.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Another question: why do you call yourself "Prophet"? Do you consider yourself to be a prophet?"


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Because I was called of God to be one.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ""to which Hman writes: Lighten up Frances. I said one OR the other. This is why it seems to me that you are hostile. You claim to be refuting me when in fact you are just repeating me. :)"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You missed the point. You said "many" of His followers, when in fact it was just two. One by Jesus, and one of his own accord. That is a long way from "many".

    So, no, I am not agreeing with you. I am pointing out your fallicies. Do you think I'm being hostile? If you were in the spirit, you would know otherwise. But heathes can only rely upon their feelings, for they know nothing of the Spirit.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I can't see where proph has been hostile with you.
    Maybe he wants to murder you too. Are you sure you are well because you seem to be seeing thing's that are not there.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Another question: why do you call yourself "Prophet"? Do you consider yourself to be a prophet? hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Homosexual Man wrote: "Many of Jesus's followers took on new names, or Jesus himself gave them new names." to which Prophet wrote: "it never says that it was Jesus who changed Saul/Paul's name." to which Hman writes: Lighten up Frances. I said one OR the other. This is why it seems to me that you are hostile. You claim to be refuting me when in fact you are just repeating me. :) hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:14 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    ""Can you help me with a question? The resurrection of Lazarus is a key event in the gospel of John. It was the reason for Jesus's triumphal entry into Jerusalem. Why does it not even appear in the other three gospels?"


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The story of Lazarus was a key event because it was the first evidence of Jesus' true divinity and triumph even over death. Simple. It had nothing to do with homosexuality, as much as you wish it were. See if you read the first part of that chapter when Lazarus' sister came to Jesus to tell Him that Lazarus was sick, Jesus responded "This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby." So the reason behind this event was to glorify God.

    There are many accounts of events that are spoken of in one or more of the Gospels, but not in others. The acension, for example Mark and Luke give the account, whereas Matthew and John do not.
    All the Gospels speak of Jesus' baptism, except John. The same for Jesus' being tempted in the wilderness. And the list goes on and on.

    And the interesting thing is that you say that the "Triumphal Entry" is because of the raising of Lazarus, but the entry is spoken of in Matthew, with nothing said about Lazarus in that whole book.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Peter and Paul were the only two who's names were changed. And it never says that it was Jesus who changed Saul/Paul's name. He may have done that himself. My opinion is that Paul did it himself to signify the meaning of his hame ""pauo" means to quit, cease, leave, or stop. Meaning that he quit his life of persecution, in exchange for the Gospel. Or it could be best explained by his words that says "Behold, old things have passed away (ceased, stopped) and all things are new."

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    "Why so hostile "Prophet"?"


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It seems that when someone, such as yourself, has been proven wrong, they think the other person is "hostile". I'm just merely pointing out your fallacies. If you consider that hostile, that is your issue. LOL.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Why so hostile "Prophet"? I am almost certain that Lazarus was not his real name for the reasons that I posted in the post where I said I was almost certain that Lazarus was not his real name. Many of Jesus's followers took on new names, or Jesus himself gave them new names. Simon became Peter, Saul became Paul, etc. "Lazarus" is phonetically very similar to "El-Osiris," who was also raised from the dead and who also had two sisters. I think he and Jesus selected this new name because of this figurative implication. Can you help me with a question? The resurrection of Lazarus is a key event in the gospel of John. It was the reason for Jesus's triumphal entry into Jerusalem. Why does it not even appear in the other three gospels? The passage I referred to in Secret Mark suggests that this story was previously included in the full gospel of Mark but was removed. hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:33 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    " I am almost certain that Lazarus was not the real given name of the man we know as Lazarus."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And how are you "almost certain"?

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "1. My theology does not require that the beloved disciple must actually be Lazarus; it's an interesting hypothesis and to me seems to be the most likely truth, but I don't know."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So now that you know that Lazarus was indeed NOT the one, you can put away that false belief.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:29 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    homosexual man,

    "Is there a Bible verse that says that only the twelve were there?"


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    If you actually read the Bible, you'd know there were.


    "Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve. And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me." Matthew 26:20-21

    "And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him." Luke 22:13-14



    So you really should study the Bible, instead of following some false doctrine that fits your agenda.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:14 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show re "those who would pervert the gospel of Christ to their own ends" I am quite sure that there are those who pervert the gospel of Christ to their own ends of *persecuting* gay people. Given all the concerns of Christ for the world, he did not mention *this* item. Yet almost any new item here at Christian Post about gay issues elicits vastly more comments (many of them quite hateful towards gay people) than any other topic. Why? hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show wowie wrote: "Polycrates- "John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord." Thanks wowie - can I offer a few thoughts on this. 1. My theology does not require that the beloved disciple must actually be Lazarus; it's an interesting hypothesis and to me seems to be the most likely truth, but I don't know. 2. I am almost certain that Lazarus was not the real given name of the man we know as Lazarus. I think it is a play on the name of El-Osiris from Egyptian mythology, who was also raised from the dead, and who also had two sisters. His name may very well have *been* John. It would make a lot more sense that a family would name their children Mary, Martha, and John, than Mary, Martha,and Lazarus. 3. There were lots of different people named John. 4. Even Polycrates could have been deliberately misled. There are reasons which we have already discussed, that it seems likely the story was already being manipulated by this time. hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:28 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Polycrates belonged to a family in which he was the eighth Christian bishop; and he presided over the church of Ephesus, in which the traditions of John were yet fresh in mens minds at the date of his birth.


    A second century quote of Polycrates of Ephesus (c. 130s - 196), recorded by Eusebius in his Church History, supports the classical identification of Beloved Disciple, who reclined beside Jesus at the Last Supper, with John.

    Polycrates- "John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord..

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:07 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    "Secret Mark"

    As Christians defending Gods truth, we must be informed of these matters so that we are not taken off-guard by those who would pervert the gospel of Christ to their own ends (2 Timothy 3:1-5).

    Morton Smith found/(is believed to have forged) this letter in 1958.

    Morton Smith was homosexual.

    Arthur Darby Nock, Smiths own professor, famously called the manuscript a mystification for the sake of mystification (as quoted in Quesnell, 1975, p. 54)in other words, a fake for the sake of faking it.

    Jacob Neusner, Smiths student at Columbia, also doubted the letters authenticity, calling it the forgery of the century (as quoted in Miller, 1999).

    An examination of the "Secret" Gospel of Mark http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2599

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:26 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The one who Jesus loved is John, he was saying that he loved me, not that he was the only one the Lord loved, but that it was a personal thing. Understanding that the Lord Jesus died for me was a personal thing and is one of the reasons that I am saved and certain others are not.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:23 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    HM, you are getting yourself into more and more trouble with the Lord, he will only take so much from you.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:21 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
    And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my DISCIPLES?
    And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.
    And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
    And in the evening he cometh WITH THE TWELVE.
    And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me. Mark 14:13-18.

    Can you imagine when the soldiers went to arrest the Lord Jesus and people in their houses heard what was going on and in a panic got out of bed, to run to the garden to warn the Lord. There would not have been enough time to get dressed, so to grab a bed sheet would have been the easiset thing to do.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:46 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "the one whom Jesus loved laid his head on Jesus' chest during the last supper. And only the twelve disciples were there." Is there a Bible verse that says that only the twelve were there? hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "So does the idea that Lazarus was one of his disciples" "prophet", you need to let go of this one. The beloved disciple is not necessarily one of the twelve apostles. The words apostle and disciple are sometimes used as if they were interchangeable, but the Bible makes distinctions between the two. For example, immediately after listing the names of the twelve apostles, Luke refers to a large crowd of disciples. Luke 6: 12One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. 13When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: 14Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, 15Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, 16Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor. Blessings and Woes 17He went down with them and stood on a level place. A large crowd of his disciples was there and a great number of people from all over Judea, from Jerusalem, and from the coast of Tyre and Sidon, hide

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Besides, Lazarus couldn't be the one whom Jesus loved. Because the one whom Jesus loved laid his head on Jesus' chest during the last supper. And only the twelve disciples were there.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:14 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Both these ideas spring from sources outside of the Bible and these ideas can then lead one to view the Bible in such a way so as miss what the plain text of the Bible actually says."


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So does the idea that Lazarus was one of his disciples, and that Jesus was involved with him romantically. So, what's your point. What is in the Scriptures is what God intended to be in there because it is the truth. To think otherwise to to think God too small.

    Homosexuality is a sin. The scriptures condemn it. The Scriptures explain that marriage and romantic love is for a man and a woman, and Jesus confirmed that. Going off on rabbit trails of fantasies and fairytales doesn't do anything for proving otherwise.

  • Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show In fact this same author has a whole other website refuting the Da Vinci code: http://thegospelofjohn.com/mary_magdalene_fourth_gospel_author/ Since you misunderstood this very straightforward point, you might want to be a little less aggressive and arrogant in conversations like this. hide

  • Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show weekender - you say it *supports* the Da Vinci code and that means it is "of the Devil" ? Well the fact is that there is a whole page at the site *refuting* the Da Vinci code. http://www.thedisciplewhomjesusloved.com/da_vinci_code_mary_magdalene/ "Exposing the ideas in The Da Vinci Code that are unbiblical is a fine goal, but arguing in favor of a false tradition is not the way to do so. Surprisingly, those who say that the one who Jesus loved was Mary Magdalene and those who say that this disciple was John have the same number of verses that could be cited to justify their position. But in both cases that number is zero, so there is no Biblical reason to prefer one above the other." "Sadly, while everyone thinks that what they believe is true, the Bible makes it clear that not everyone has a love of the truth and that some people will turn away from the truth when it is shown to them. Those who want to believe that Mary Magdalene was the one who Jesus loved believe this in spite of the Biblical evidence, not because of it. But the same can be said of those who believe this beloved disciple was John. Both these ideas spring from sources outside of the Bible and these ideas can then lead one to view the Bible in such a way so as miss what the plain text of the Bible actually says." hide

  • Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Homoman is getting more and more "out there".

  • Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The site that "homo man" claims as a "Christian website" supports The Da Vinci Code. Need I say anything more? The "Christianity" this pervert professes is of the Devil.

    http://www.thedisciplewhomjesusloved.com/beloved_disciple_whom_Jesus_loved/

  • Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    A homo man looks to Wikipedia for proof and claims he's "saved."

    As Gomer Pyle would says, "Surprise, surprise, surprise . . ."

    As the author of Ecclesiastes wrote . . . "There's nothing new under the sun."

  • Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "Prophet," it's not my idea at all. Lazarus is widely considered one of the most plausible candidates for "the beloved disciple." The most in-depth treatment I have seen of the issue is at a Christian website: http://www.thedisciplewhomjesusloved.com/beloved_disciple_whom_Jesus_loved/ If you watch CBN, I've seen a movie version of it there. Wikipedia also cites Lazarus as a likely candidate, and says that "Modern scholars generally hold that John the Apostle did not write the Gospel of John or any of the other New Testament works traditionally ascribed to him" hide

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