Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Church|Thu, Aug. 27 2009 11:54 AM EDT

Methodists Say No to Lutheran Gay Clergy

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

Lutheran ministers who are in same-sex relationships will not be allowed to serve as clergy in United Methodist congregations despite the new full communion agreement between the two denominations.

Bishop Gregory Palmer, president of the United Methodist Council of Bishops, made clear on Wednesday that UMC's ban on noncelibate gay clergy still stands.

"Our Book of Discipline on that subject did not become null and void when they took that vote," said Palmer, according to the United Methodist News Service. "It still applies to United Methodist clergy."

Palmer was referring to the highly publicized vote last week by the chief legislative body of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America to approve a resolution allowing gays and lesbians in "life-long, monogamous, same gender relationships" to be ordained.

The controversial vote took place a day after ELCA delegates overwhelmingly adopted a full communion agreement with The United Methodist Church.

Full communion is not tantamount to a merger, church officials said. Instead, under the pact each church acknowledges the other as a partner in the Christian faith, recognizes the authenticity of each other's baptism and Eucharist, and is committed to working together toward greater unity.

The two denominations also express mutual recognition of ordained ministers for service in either church, according to the agreement. Some UMC leaders have already expressed eagerness to share clergy in underserved areas, as reported by the United Methodist News Service.

Although the agreement recognizes full interchangeability of all ordained ministers, UMC congregations will not be accepting partnered homosexuals from the ELCA.

As Palmer stressed, "the doctrine, polity and standards of ministry of the respective denominations in any full communion agreement are not wiped out when one denomination does something."

Last year, the highest legislative body of The United Methodist Church rejected changes to its constitution and voted to uphold its ban against the ordination of practicing homosexuals. United Methodists continue to hold that homosexual practice is "incompatible with Christian teaching."

Michael Trice, an ecumenical officer of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, noted that if partnered homosexuals in the ELCA want to serve in a United Methodist congregation, The United Methodist Church can say to them "we are sorry but that does not fit our protocols."

"Unity does not require uniformity in all cases," said Trice. "It requires faithfulness to the Gospel, honesty with our Christian partners, and wherever we can share a sense of mission and service in the world."

The agreement with the ELCA is UMC's first full communion relationship outside the Methodist tradition. The ELCA, meanwhile, has full communion pacts with The Episcopal Church, Moravian Church in America, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), Reformed Church in America and the United Church of Christ.

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  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:55 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 3

    On Flagging

    I don't know if forcing the flaggers out of the closet will do any good. For some people, who wouldn't think twice about standing nearly naked on top of a parade float covered in pink cotton, being named would be an 'attractive' thing.

    I know most Christians wouldn't mind saying when they flag a comment inappropriate for a Christian website, because most others would have probably flagged it too. However, there would be times when Christians might disagree with each other about flagging, and that distraction wouldn't be helpful in this environment.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    My suggestion -

    Only comments that are inappropriate for a Christian website should be flagged. Only Christians have the right to flag a comment inappropriate for a Christian website, and they are not named.

    To CP, we should request that when an individual has been a member for at least 30 days, their post record is automatically reviewed and if the reviewer sees that they are Christians, they are given the power to flag which is tied to their account name. This is both possible and practical.

    Someone who is flagged 3 times within 24 hours has their account suspended for 3 days. No one is ever permanently banned.

    TGF --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flagged as inappropriate means inappropriate for a Christian website, not inappropriate for any website and not disagreeable to you.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:53 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Dreamer, I don't know why your posts are being flagged, being scriptural. I have the feeling that we have a deviant on the loose. Can someone please call the Deviant Pound?

    TGF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Flagged as inappropriate means inappropriate for a Christian website, not inappropriate for any website and not disagreeable to you.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:52 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    For someone who didn't know who Wesley was, you sure posted a good question, when you asked,

    "How can they recognize the 'authenticity' of the baptism and Eucharist when they have this 'pick and choose' attitude toward scripture?"

    Most Christians would rightfully expect that their church leaders would boldly proclaim the truth of God's Word and renounce what God calls sin.

    "Instead, under the pact each church acknowledges the other as a partner in the Christian faith, recognizes the authenticity of each other's baptism and Eucharist, and is committed to working together toward greater unity."

    Christians who find their churches are apostate and in the hands of Satan, must run away as fast as they can. Do the right thing Lutherans. Your leaders don't care about your relationship with God or your salvation. Otherwise, they would be warning you, "Get Out Of Her, My People. Hurry. Do Not Delay."

    BTW, lots of Christians don't know who Wesley, Calvin, Luther, or Arminius were, but they still offer an interesting and encouraging point of view.

    TGF

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:51 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    Just say 'No' to drugs.

    Just say 'No' to sex outside of marriage.

    Just say 'No' to sex with people of the same gender, dead people, and beasts of the animal kingdom.

    TGF

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Dreamer

    Have you considered a Messianic congregation? If there is one in your area, you might want to check them out. They usually meet on Friday evenings and/or Saturday mornings. They believe in Jesus (Yeshua in Hebrew) as the Messiah/Christ, and are charasmatic in respect to doing David dance, etc. They believe in the gifts of the Spirit, keep Biblical Holy Days and Sabbath. When I first attended one, it just felt right to me. Of all the churches I have attended over the years, they are the closest to what Scripture actually teaches.

    God bless you in your search for a church home.

  • Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:43 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 9

    Chas »

    The catholic church is about as apostate as it can get! Priests who molest little boys, popes who get caught in the beds of married women, popes who are followed on the papal throne by their illegitimate sons, praying to statues,filling their churches with IDOLS (see the 10 commandments about that one!) making false claims of the sinless "immaculate" birth of Mary, looking for signs & wonders (something clearly taught AGAINST in Scripture), your current pope embracing Islam, kissing the Quran of all things!!! ABOMINATION!!!
    The woman riding the beast in Revelation IS the catholic church.

    You would be well served to pray to God directly, not to Mary or some other saint for guidance concerning your "church". If you ar sincerely seeking Him, He will lead you in the way you should go, and it sure won't be to some confessional with a man sitting ont he other side of the wall. JESUS is our high priest. We are to confess to HIM. When He was crucified, the temple veil was torn in half. The confessinal booth represents the separation of men from God, which Jesus destroyed unon His death on the Cross. All the Hail Marys in the world will not cleanse you from your sin. Only Jesus can do that.

  • Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:53 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Bishop Gregory Palmer talks out the side of his mouth! He says one thing and does another. He says no Lutheran Gay pastors because of the "Our Book of Discipline on that subject did not become null and void when they took that vote," but where there is an openly Gay UM Pastor comes out of the closet, they say and do nothing. They don't enforce the Book of Discipline in the UMC, why should we believe what he says here? I encourage UM members to leave the UMC and find a new church home that preaches the Gospel from the Bible and hold to what we are taught in the NT, where Paul and Peter and John and Jude admonitions us to not follow those that promote another gospel or immorality being acceptable in the church. Don't follow the UM leadership into Hell!
    1Co 5:9-13(KJV) I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

  • Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:54 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    The position on the Bible, and women in leadership, and homosexuality usually go together. http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_and_Christianity Those who hold to the Scriptures being wholly inspired of God, as they present themselves to be, and that the man is the head of the women as Christ is the head of the church (and is to love her as He did/does), also hold that only man and women constitute that "what" of "what therefore God hath joined together" (Mt. 19:4; cf. Gn. 1:26,27; 2:18-24), being made uniquely compatible and complimentary, with homosexual relations being unconditionally condemned wherever they are explicitly dealt with. See http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Homosex_versus_the_Bible.html and http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/WOMENPASTORS.html

  • Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:54 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    The position on the Bible, and women in leadership, and homosexuality usually go together. http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_and_Christianity Those who hold to the Scriptures being wholly inspired of God, as they present themselves to be, and that the man is the head of the women as Christ is the head of the church (and is to love her as He did/does), also hold that only man and women constitute that "what" of "what therefore God hath joined together" (Mt. 19:4; cf. Gn. 1:26,27; 2:18-24), being made uniquely compatible and complimentary, with homosexual relations being unconditionally condemned wherever they are explicitly dealt with. See http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Homosex_versus_the_Bible.html and http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/WOMENPASTORS.html

  • Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:16 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show dreamer, what keeps a person out of heaven is them not repenting of their sin and turning to God by putting their complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of Jesus Christ alone. If a person claims to be saved and yet willfully continues to sin and shows no desire to stop sinning, then there is good reason to believe they never had a true conversion experience. But at the same time the issue of women in ministry is a hotly debated issue and even though I believe the Bible clearly teaches that women should not hold any position in the local church that gives them spiritual headship over men there are some to include denominations who'll contend there are scriptures that say just the opposite. So I personally would not say that because a person attends a church or belongs to a denomination that allows for women to hold such roles I don't believe that shows they are not genuinely saved or if you hold to the belief a person can lose their salvation that they have lost their salvation as a result of that either. hide

  • Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:46 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show On Flagging I don't know if forcing the flaggers out of the closet will do any good. For some people, who wouldn't think twice about standing nearly naked on top of a parade float covered in pink cotton, being named would be an 'attractive' thing. I know most Christians wouldn't mind saying when they flag a comment inappropriate for a Christian website, because most others would have probably flagged it too. However, there would be times when Christians might disagree with each other about flagging, and that distraction wouldn't be helpful in this environment. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My suggestion - Only comments that are inappropriate for a Christian website should be flagged. Only Christians have the right to flag a comment inappropriate for a Christian website, and they are not named. To CP, we should request that when an individual has been a member for at least 30 days, their post record is automatically reviewed and if the reviewer sees that they are Christians, they are given the power to flag which is tied to their account name. This is both possible and practical. Someone who is flagged 3 times within 24 hours has their account suspended for 3 days. No one is ever permanently banned. TGF --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flagged as inappropriate means inappropriate for a Christian website, not inappropriate for any website and not disagreeable to you. hide

  • Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:52 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show I noticed several posts flagged yesterday. Many were from Chritstians and many were from the dissenters and false doctrines. I think someone just went mad-flagging. Probably someone got flagged and got mad and went flag-crazy. Not exactly mature behavior. This flagging is becoming annoying. I almost wish CP would disable that feature or as someone else suggested, name the flagger on each flag. hide

  • Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:19 am Agree: 7   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Dreamer, I don't know why your posts are being flagged, being scriptural. I have the feeling that we have a deviant on the loose. Can someone please call the Deviant Pound? TGF --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flagged as inappropriate means inappropriate for a Christian website, not inappropriate for any website and not disagreeable to you. hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:36 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show So to go to a church that had women leaders would violate the Bible's teaching. All of us here who understand the truth about gays know that none of them are going to heaven. They reject Biblical teaching on proper relationships. So then is it safe to assume that female religous leaders are not going either? Or Catholics? I mean I am pretty sure that rejecting scripture or translating it into something that satisfys your own desires will keep you out of heaven. Catholics do a lot of that. hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:48 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show dreamer, the Bible teaches that women are not to hold positions in the local church that would give them spiritual headship over men. So the question we need to ask is does a women preaching or teaching men equate to that and if it does then a woman should not do it or be in a position that would allow or require her to do it. hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:18 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Thank you to all my fellow Christians who have suggested churches for me to explore. In todays world it is imperative that I choose wisely. I do not want to be in a church that accepts gays or is in 'full-communion' with churches that do. But gays are not the only issue to watch out for. There are some other issues that I am not clear on that concern me...like the ordination of women. Or the appropriate attire for women. There was a church I visited in another state that was Pentecostal and they taught that women shoudl wear dresses/skirts and that only men should wear pants. They also taught that women were forbidden from leadership at the church. If the Bible states clearly that women are not to hold leadership over a man then isn't the preaching of such churches tainted? hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rachel707 -- rock on, girl, rock on! hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rachel707, you make so much sense. May I ask what your church or denomination is? Whichever it is, if you are any indication I'd say it must be a church that can discern what really matters in life from what doesn't. hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:09 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show dreamer, as much of a Southern Baptist as I am, I would encourage you to make a serious matter of prayer as I am sure you are doing already and then as God leads begin to visit some churches in your area. If I were visiting an SBC church, I'd visit their Sunday School, Sunday night and Wedenesday night services to really see what they are all about and if I felt this may be the church I'd ask for a copy of their constitution as well as ask around about their reputation in their community. hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:38 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Hi rachel707! I've been well. It's nice to see you posting here again. Your words are very wise. I couldn't agree more. If more people of faith were like you, open to the SPIRIT of the teachings, the world would be a better place. hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:14 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    "The walls keep coming down because all those other folks DID let the truth set them free."

    The truth of this world is of no importance to us. We want to be free in Jesus.

  • Mee »
    Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:52 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Great -- God always first .. Man have not right trying to change God's Word. We should change our lives to his Word and not rewrite his word to please our selves.

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:50 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Dreamer,

    If you're in search of a church that is expository in nature and Biblically focused, the Baptists hold very closely to the Word. That's what they're known for.

    I am NOT Baptist, but if I knew of someone who was wanting to grow in the Word, I would not think twice about suggesting they become a part of a Baptist church body. Bible study and teaching is paramount there.

    I noticed you mentioned you had an anti-gay pastor. Frankly, the Baptists, because they keep to the Word, do not accept or condone homosexuality no more than they accept or condone fornication or adultery or any form of promiscuity. All of these are sin according to the Word.

    If you're wanting to grow in Christ, non-denominational churches aren't always the best bet. Sometimes they're "non-denominational" for a reason, and sometimes it's not for the right reasons. (Though this is NOT by any means a rule of course, just my opinion).

    My suggestion is to pray about it first. Ask God to lead you where you should go. Then visit several churches.

    When you settle on one, interview the pastor as to what that particular church body believes. Be kind and considerate, but ask questions concerning doctrine and faith and Christian living. Some churches even have new believers classes or Pizza with the Pastor, so you can meet the Pastor and his staff. In a Godly church, questions are always welcomed if done with respect.

    If you allow the Holy Spirit to lead you, He will place you where you need to be.

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:57 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Thanks! I will look into that.

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:25 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Dreamer: If you're interested in a non-denominational church that is based on New Testament principles and practices expository preaching, I suggest you explore the Plymouth Brethren movement (popularly known as "the assemblies"). Very sound teaching! hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:33 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 2

    Thanks Gibbons. It goes to show how a 'Christian education' is not needed to understand the message and truth in God's word. I am sure it help in understanding some of the more obscure verses, expecially the Old Testament, but the basic truths are there for anyone to plainly read.

    I was raised in a non-denominational church who was very lax in thier teaching of scripture. They were one of those 'PC' churches that decided it better not to speak of 'sin' but to instead focus on 'love' and servicing the poor. When I was an adult I realised that you cannot teach in truth without teaching both.

    As an adult I joined a Lutheren church until a few months ago when they decided to replace our anti-gay pastor with a 'celibate' lesbian! I left that day and have not been back.

    I have sonce not found a church home and am leary at this point and want to make sure I choose correctly.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:17 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 2

    Flagged as inappropriate. show For someone who didn't know who Wesley was, you sure posted a good question, when you asked, "How can they recognize the 'authenticity' of the baptism and Eucharist when they have this 'pick and choose' attitude toward scripture?" Most Christians would rightfully expect that their church leaders would boldly proclaim the truth of God's Word and renounce what God calls sin. "Instead, under the pact each church acknowledges the other as a partner in the Christian faith, recognizes the authenticity of each other's baptism and Eucharist, and is committed to working together toward greater unity." Christians who find their churches are apostate and in the hands of Satan, must run away as fast as they can. Do the right thing Lutherans. Your leaders don't care about your relationship with God or your salvation. Otherwise, they would be warning you, "Get Out Of Her, My People. Hurry. Do Not Delay." BTW, lots of Christians don't know who Wesley, Calvin, Luther, or Arminius were, but they still offer an interesting and encouraging point of view. TGF The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches. hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    chas, that's because roman catholics don't get to vote!!

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Also, I aplogize for being somewhat uninformed on certain Christian subjects and stuff. I asked the other day who John wesley was...now I know but I guess it was something I should have known as a Christian. So I hesitate to ask but I saw this on another post that I can't find now and will ask here...

    Who is Mary Jo? Is that the name given to unnamed abortions? Or a specific case? Sorry for the lack of Christian education here. Product of the public schools and a lax church as a child. I don't have a church at the moment. My liberal area doesn't offer much.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:38 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 1

    I don't know guys. Just because they are not going to let gays preach at thier churches does not mean much after they say:
    "Instead, under the pact each church acknowledges the other as a partner in the Christian faith, recognizes the authenticity of each other's baptism and Eucharist, and is committed to working together toward greater unity."

    How can they recognize the 'authenticity' of the baptism and Eucharist when they have this 'pick and choose' attitude toward scripture?

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:35 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 1

    At least the United Methodists are smarter and more biblical than my own Evangelical Lutheran Church. Good for them.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:54 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Chas, If you read what i wrote, i said i have had *many* bad experiences with catholics, not just one priest. To be judgemental based on the word of god is one thing, but to look down on people who want to learn about the Lord and try to help them is another. don't take what i said so personally, i don't know you and until now you had never talked down to me, so i was directing nothing towards you personally. and why would you even say "We will never change our beliefs or morals based on what you are gguy thinks" did i ask you to?? you don't even know my beliefs or morals, they are probably the same as yours...with the exception of worshipping mother mary and confessing all my dirt to a priest. Our world is so broken right now, and people really need God. There is so much bickering here between christians its pathetic. hide

  • Chas »
    Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:28 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 7

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Rachel and GGuy, It is good you left the Catholic Church. We are not smug, but we can be judgemental based on what the Word of God clearly teaches. Many liberal types look for churches that meet your own understanding of Truth a Church that preaches what you agree with. A lot of Relativists do this. What you should instead do is search Truth and then change your beliefs to that Truth. You will find that fullness of Truth never changing in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church will always judge homosexual activity to be wrong. We stand firm on the Word of God properly interpreted by His Catholic Church. I'm sorry one Priest you met was rude to you and I'm also sorry you make decisions based on one encounter. Maybe he was late for something or just heard some bad news. Talk about being judgemental. Maybe you should have set up a meeting with him. Here is the great thing. We will never change our beliefs or morals based on what you are gguy thinks, because we stand firm on the Truth which never changes. Paul Brown, Yes it is Conference and not Synod. My bad. I hope you are right, because if you are then the Methodists have a better chance of uniting with the Catholic Church as soon as they throw out all their female ministers. My friend who just left being Pastor of a UMC is now becoming a Catholic Priest and he said they are very liberal up here in the Northwest. Sickeningly liberal is how he put it. I'll pray for good orthodoxy for the Methodists church, because otherwise it will continue to die out. hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:19 pm Agree: 11   Disagree: 0

    Chas, you are obviously ignorant regarding "insider information" about the United Methodist Church as evidenced by your use of the word "Synod" (the correct term for Methodism would be "General Conference").

    From a recent AP article: "The nation's largest mainline denomination, the United Methodist Church, has moved in the opposite direction, hardening its opposition to non-celibate gay clergy.

    That's likely to continue because of declining Methodist membership in the Northeast and on the West Coast and growth in the South and Sunbelt, said David Steinmetz, of Duke. The church also has a burgeoning presence in Africa, a source of conservatism in the Anglican battles, also.

    (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090822/ap_on_re/us_lutherans_gays)

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:38 pm Agree: 11   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "I used to be a catholic. Most of the ones I ever knew thrived on being smug and judgmental, putting others down to put themselves up. They cared more about judging who was best at following the rules than actually understanding the spirit behind the rules!" Garageguy..hi sweetie, how ya been? I agree with you about some of the Catholic breed, not to say that it doesn't apply to all denominations, but my experience with catholics has been the same, I have had several experiences but the first one that came to mind was when my husband and I were thinking about going to church and went to a catholic one at first, and we were treated so disrespectfully by the "father" that if God wasn't pulling on my heart strings at the time, I would have said forget it and never looked for another church! All it takes is that one person to turn someone off God...thankfully I found a good church with a great pastor who taught me to always do my own research and never just take the pastors word for it (because they are only human too!) Most of the catholics I know don't even read their bible. There are problems in every church though....it's really not about being religious, or even going to church every sunday, but more importantly having a personal relationship with Jesus, and making him the center of our lives. hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:00 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 3

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "The Walls just keep falling down. The Truth will set you free, Read the Word of God within the Context of the Catholic Church and you will never vote for these immoral things." The walls keep coming down because all those other folks DID let the truth set them free. You just don't like it because you aren't one of them and you need to play smug and superior to feel confidence. I used to be a catholic. Most of the ones I ever knew thrived on being smug and judgmental, putting others down to put themselves up. They cared more about judging who was best at following the rules than actually understanding the spirit behind the rules! hide

  • Chas »
    Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:41 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 12

    Flagged as inappropriate. show This is only temporary as the Methodist, have non-celibate gay clergy vote scheduled for their next Synod and insiders say they will fall in line with the Lutherans. The Walls just keep falling down. The Truth will set you free, Read the Word of God within the Context of the Catholic Church and you will never vote for these immoral things. hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:50 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 13

    Flagged as inappropriate. show . . . . And after the vote, the male pastors watched back-to-back episodes of Project Runway while the female pastors formed a women's softball league. . . hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:27 pm Agree: 15   Disagree: 2

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Just say 'No' to drugs. Just say 'No' to sex outside of marriage. Just say 'No' to sex with people of the same gender, dead people, and beasts of the animal kingdom. TGF The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches. hide

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:18 pm Agree: 14   Disagree: 1

    Hallelujah! I'm surprised but pleased. The blurring of scriptural dictates has been strong in both the ELCA and the UMC, but maybe the Methodists are beginning to realize that the scripture means what it says.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:57 pm Agree: 15   Disagree: 2

    It is a blessing to hear the United Methodists affirm that homosexuality is "incompatible with Christian teaching” and stating "It requires faithfulness to the Gospel..."

    AMEN to that!!!

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:32 pm Agree: 12   Disagree: 1

    My wife will be pleased to know her former church has not yet gone all the way apostate.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:22 pm Agree: 17   Disagree: 2

    Well...even the UMC has their limits!

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