Updated 09:38 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Church|Fri, Oct. 23 2009 05:05 PM EDT

United Methodists Tackle Ineffective Clergy, Congregations

By Audrey Barrick|Christian Post Reporter

United Methodists are reevaluating the so-called "guaranteed appointment" of clergy system, calling into question the effectiveness of the long-established practice amid membership decline.

For decades ordained elders have been assigned to local churches regardless of their effectiveness. While pastors could be removed from their leadership position for immorality, violation of church law or criminal activity, ineffectiveness has not been dealt with in the same manner.

The guarantee that ordained leaders have stems from The United Methodist Church's Book of Discipline, which states, "All elders in full connection who are in good standing in an annual conference shall be continued under appointment by the bishop."

It was originally adopted in 1956 to protect pastors from arbitrary, sexist or racist abuses of authority. But decades later, some say the protection is producing more negative outcomes than positive ones, such as ineffective pastors.

"What we want to do is retain protections for women and minorities. But guaranteed appointment is having the consequence of supporting mediocrity," said Bishop Grant Hagiya of the Pacific Northwest Annual Conference and the Alaska Conference at a meeting earlier this month.

In 2004 the United Methodist Church's highest legislative body created a task force to study its system of lay, licensed and ordained ministry. The panel later reported that the guaranteed appointment of clergy was one of the biggest hurdles to reviving the church, according to the United Methodist News Service.

Though a petition to completely eliminate the guaranteed appointment provision was rejected in 2000, Methodists last year approved a petition to amend, and not remove, the paragraph in the Book of Discipline dealing with clergy appointment.

The petition outlines responsibilities that an ordained elder must fulfill, including annual participation in an evaluation process with a pastor-parish relations committee or comparable authority; evidence of continuing effectiveness reflected in annual evaluations; and professional growth through continuing education and formation, among others.

The petition also gives bishops procedures for corrective action or terminating an ineffective pastor's appointment.

United Methodist leaders clarified that the petition does not point the finger at clergy. The concern is rather on the effectiveness of entire congregations. The Rev. Mary Ann Moman, an elder in the South Indiana Conference, told The United Methodist Reporter that effective congregations take initiative to reach populations in their community “that are not like themselves. To the level that we’re not doing that, we’re not being as effective in congregations as we could.”

Meanwhile, the work of the task force – Study of Ministry Commission – set up in 2004 continues. A report was expected to be delivered in 2008 but the commission asked for more time to study ministry orders and make recommendations.

The commission held a meeting earlier this month in Nashville where they considered changes to the guaranteed appointment principle and the ordination process.

Bishop Hagiya said the goal of the commission is to remove obstacles and rules to allow "creative ministry to thrive."

The United Methodist Church is the second largest Protestant denomination with 7.9 million members, but it has experienced membership decline for decades now.

With continued losses, Hagiya said the church cannot continue to afford guaranteed appointments.

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  • Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:40 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Re: Phileo

    Like I said, some United Methodist churches maybe, but not all. You can't make generalizations about 11+ million worshippers! In the same way you can't categorize Catholics, Episcopalians, etc.

    Make your argument on facts. Source your facts. And then have an intelligent conversation.

    As I've stated, and as can be proved on www.umc.org in various places...the UMC in the Sourthern US and in Africa is more conservative and Biblical then the UMC that is being generalized by those who don't know any better.

    One church does not a whole denomination make...look at the facts. Argue facts.

  • Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:40 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 3

    The Methodist Church is dying because they don't preach the Word of God. It's as simple as that. I took my mother-in-law to a local UMC congregation several weeks ago, and I asked her several hours after the service what the sermon topic was, and what she could remember from the message, and she just had a blank stare and said, "I can't remember."

    Exactly, she just proved my point. They spent half their service performing musical numbers of various variety, and read one passage of scripture and spent 20 minutes having the pastor preach some feel good message that had nothing to do with scripture.

    Going to church is about worshipping God. It's not about feeling good about yourself when you walk out the door. If you are worshipping God you will remember what the message was about, and you'll take at least one or two relevent points home with you. This is not happening in the Methodist church, where they are more concerned with cook outs and bake sales, then they are with making disciples of Jesus Christ.

    Welcome to the Country Club of Christianity. And not one person besides myself in attendance brought a Bible with them for worship. That alone should tell you all you need to know about how little these people are being fed spiritually.

  • Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:32 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    :I think the UMC is a Biblically sound and culturally relevant church"

    As long as you don't mind them bending the rules in the Word of God..

  • Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:26 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    A Call To Anguish by David Wilkerson.

  • Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Jehovahnissi - thank you. It's been a long road of recovery from what I suffered at that Methodist church I went to. It kills me today those pastors are still there. :'( This is not saying the UMC as a whole is like this and I hope this was more isolated what my family and I suffered. I hope it's also less about the un-biblical beliefs and practices. I pray for those pastors and that congregation daily and don't wish any harm on them at all.
    Methodist, I couldn't agree more with you.

  • Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:13 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Pastors need a form of tenure to maintain some security of position/ employment. Next the UMC needs to facilitate a preformance form that adequately asks questions of the PPR committee that the District Supt. & Bishop and the PPR committee can understand and agree on as to the performance of the Pastor being rated. The current method has certain meanings that are not common understandable by each party. Many Pastors are avoiding accountability to the Scriptures, Book of Discipline, and needs of their parish. Upper management needs to offer more guidance, seminars / classes for personal relationship management and encouragement to the local church staff. Goal setting at the beginning of each year is a must so that accountability can be measured in its performance or lack thereof.

  • Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:25 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    If the UMC is culturally relevant, can it also be Biblically sound? This would appear to be a contradiction of both terms and reality.

  • Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:43 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Good morning Booboo,

    ...may God's word bring you comfort..

    Gal 6:9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

    2Th 3:13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

    2Th 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.


    2Th 3:15 {Yet} do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.


    Deu 31:6 "Be strong and courageous, do not be afraid or tremble at them, for the LORD your God is the one who goes with you. He will not fail you or forsake you."
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    This study also helps me renew my mind. It helps me have divine perspective thus givving me peace and hope.


    Beatitudes--Their Significance And Meaning
    --------------------------------------------------------------


    Description:
    The beatitudes are eight statements taught by Jesus. They are concerned with virtue and how a believer in Jesus Christ can achieve that virtue. The Beatitudes are a map of life, a series of directives helping us on our journey to be with God. They also designate the actual condition of people who follow God's guidelines.

    They are simply stated, but are profound in meaning. They guide. They point. They teach. They show us the values that Christ cares about. These values if followed, can not only bring a believer into a state of peace and happiness, but also right into the Kingdom of God after our journey on this earth is over.
    The Latin word for blessed is beatus, from which we get the word beatitude.

    The beatitudes are found at Matthew 5: 3-12

    ..rest of study:
    http://robertwells.tripod.com/Beatitudes.html

  • Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Bujo - no, it's not about the drinking. it's accepting an underage drinker that bothers me. it's dismissing the Book of Discipline and especially God's Word (in the church I left) that really gets me. I should've said the drinking was one example. I worry about others who've suffered abuse like I did and those being deceived at the Methodist church I left. Did you read my whole post?

  • Bujo »
    Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:16 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    Booboo,

    Are you seriously worried about the church because some people in it drink? If so I don't feel so bad for you. Because if you were running around trying to tell on somone for enjoying a little alcohol then you should have been ignored. You show me the verse of the Bible that says you can't drink alcohol and I'll show you the one where alien space bats take over Caanan.

  • Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:39 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    I have always been agaisnt guarenteed appoinments, but I fear this ruling. I see this as a way for the liberals to funally get rid of the bible preaching/believing pastors in the denomination. It used to be they would just send you out to nowhere. You still got a salary, but usually you were in churches that were mean-spirited, split or full of other problems. Of course, you had people who needed to hear the gospel in those churches.

  • Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:47 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    I can only say for one United Methodist Church - the one I went to. They're deceiving so many and it kills me. I've posted reviews on as many places as I can online to let others know. The one I went to has like 800 or so families going there.
    And the youth/family pastor treated me very cruelly. When I told the sr pastor, he dismissed his actions. I can't believe those pastors are still there. I tried to report them but so far I don't know what's happened.
    A good friend of mine was raised Methodist and she knows so many who've left the denomination because they've gotten so liberal.
    What they say on the umc.org site and what's really going on, at least the one church I went to, are so opposite. They say something the clergy are to abstain from alcohol. Yet that one pastor who hurt me drinks. And I've known many who went to that church also drinks. They even have a young adult who drinks under the age, they're aware of this, and she's allowed to teach Sunday School and other ministries. Really sad. Yet I struggle with something that isn't so "socially acceptable" and I cried out for help. I got mistreated for it instead. I guess you just hafta brag like it's a good thing to be accepted. :(
    ovidiving: when I said there are many Methodist churches who aren't following the Bible, I meant many, not all. I wasn't trying to speak for all of them. I wanted to give a heads up to that person. Because I'm aware of this going on in the Methodist church, I am trying to help other believers so they aren't deceived. I never meant any harm in what I said.

  • Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:21 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Re: BooBoo - We need to thoroughly examine the Scriptures and make sure the teaching and beliefs are in line with the Bible.

    Most definitely! Here we can agree.

  • Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:18 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 4

    Re: Booboo - There are many Methodist churches that aren't following the Bible...

    Again...major rationalization with no facts to back it up. There are just about as many United Methodist congregations around the globe as there are zip codes in the United States (Look it up!) You can't say "many" and speak for every single church.

    Some...maybe. I would definitely say there is some, but don't try to paint the United Methodist Church with one big paintbrush if you don't really know the denomination.

    For instance, according to the UMC's own figures which can be verified at umc.org, most of the UMC churches in the US are smaller than 100 people and often more conservative in their theology.

    Also, there's a major push within the African United Methodist Church to be more conservative. In fact, that group has challenged the more liberal wing of the US UMC and ended up winning, especially in regards to homosexuality issues.

    The United Methodist Church is not the United Church of Christ or the Episcopalian Church. Each denomination has gifts and drawbacks percular to their own situation. Don't generalize...It really makes your argument sound juvenile. And if you spout a "fact" quote your source.

    To the rest on this blog, check out www.umc.org and other church websites for these churches in order to find out for yourselves.

    Please don't take my word for it and don't get your information from me or any other anonymous blogger and give it the ring of truth without checking into it.

  • Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:04 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 5

    Bujo, There are many Methodist churches that aren't following the Bible. The one I went to left out what they don't believe in in their sermons, teachings. Things like repentance from sin. Instead they believe in "tolerance," however will not "tolerate" when someone believes in according to what the Bible says (like the Devil, etc.). Don't be afraid to ask the hard questions. Don't be afraid to ask if they believe Jesus is the only way to Heaven. The church I went to even believed that atheists will one day make it to heaven, without Jesus. That's not Biblically sound. But I don't know about your church so I can't judge. We need to thoroughly examine the Scriptures and make sure the teaching and beliefs are in line with the Bible.

  • Bujo »
    Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:07 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    I for one am a big fan of the UMC. One of my best friends in the world is a UMC minister here in Alabama. She and I have had some really great discussions about our faith over the years we have known each other.

    I think the UMC is a Biblically sound and culturally relevant church.

  • Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:49 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Booboo,

    I understand; it can be discouraging to have had a negative experience at church but rest assured that the Lord is your rest and assurance. Yes, hopefully the decisions made will start the denomination in a positive, God-centered, Jesus glorifying direction . . .

    Peace

  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    re: Tomas - my point was there was no source for the information - only that.

  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:17 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Thank you, Online4Him! Right now, I'm very hesitant to try any church because of how badly we were hurt. I'm actually afraid. This can't be the UMC as a whole and I'm not blaming the entire Methodist denomination.
    I really hope the decisions made start the denomination in a positive, God-centered, Jesus glorifying direction. <3

  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:39 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Booboo,

    The Lord guide you as you begin a new search for a body of believers that faithfully proclaim the truths of Scripture . . .

  • Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:40 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    I went to a UM Church and left this past spring. We were really upset with all we learned. The sr pastor is a celebrity in our area yet - Gibbons Family - some of what you said he'd agree with. He doesn't believe Adam & Eve weren't real people, for one, nor did he believe in the devil.
    Plus their youth/family pastor hurt me really badly and his actions were dismissed by the sr. pastor.
    My kids don't understand why we left - they have special needs and can't understand. They just miss their friends from that church. Sadly, the youth/family pastor was a leader for one of my kids, at a group she went to. I can't chance her going back to that after what he did to me.
    My heart breaks for that church. They got a lot of people going there and the sr pastor is somewhat of a celebrity in our area.
    A good friend of mine was raised Methodist and she told me she knows people who have left because of how liberal they've gotten.
    All the more reason why we should pray for the UM Church and the Church overall. We need to pray for godly churches to rise up and lead people to Him.

  • Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:31 pm Agree: 11   Disagree: 6

    The UMC is aging and losing members through death. It is hampered by an elephantine structure, regional disunity and a massive national and local bureaucracy that saps money and undermines creativity. In the fastest growing areas of the nation, the UMC is losing ground because younger people want churches that meet their modern idea of church and don't care so about denominational identity. People in areas of growth are asking where is a good church with vibrant worship, strong preaching, creative progaming for children, youth and young adults. Where that is a UMC they will join. If not, they go elsewhere.

    I have fought long and hard without success to get permission to find funding to expand camping for children. The "churchocrats" will not allow it. When their own funding campaing fell flat they blamed the economy rather than examine the mistakes they made. No one else is allowed to succeed.

    Fortunately, I attend a church with resources and talent to get things done. It has begun two new congregations and is involved in missions locally and internationally. You might think the church would be held up as an example. You would be wrong.

  • Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:37 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 4

    ovidliving: UMC attendance rates might be climbing in some standout "purpose driven" churches, but it remains less than 1/3 of total membership throughout the denomination. Citing three churches in the midwest as examples of church growth doesn't do much to capture the reality of UMC decline everywhere else in the U.S.

  • Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:28 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 7

    Gibbons - stats without sources are only numbers on a page - yes, the UMC is losing members but attendance has been increasing in purpose driven churches - Check out Granger Community in Granger IN, Church of the Resurrection in KS, and Tipp City UMC in OH for examples.

    Rhi Bran - You're absolutely right. This isn't going anywhere fast unless bishops will give up the right to appoint! :-)

  • Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:18 pm Agree: 20   Disagree: 25

    Of the Methodist clergy nationwide, 21% are women.
    20% do not believe that Jesus will return to earth one day.
    One-third do not believe in the Virgin Birth.
    40% say that the devil doesn't actually exist.
    40% say one way to salvation is through belief in Jesus Christ, but that there is more than one way to salvation.
    Two-thirds say that Adam and Eve were not real people.
    Two-thirds say that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God.

    They are currently losing members.

    TGF
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You either believe that the Bible IS God's Word or the Bible simply contains God's Word.

  • Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:34 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 0

    This is not going anywhere any time soon.

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