Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Society|Tue, Oct. 27 2009 05:48 PM EDT

Gay Marriage Supporters, Opponents Make Case in D.C. Hearing

By Nathan Black|Christian Post Reporter

The D.C. Council heard testimonies on Monday from residents hoping to either legalize same-sex marriage in the nation's capital or ban it.

More than 100 people attended the hearing on a bill, co-sponsored by 10 of the 13 council members, that would allow same-sex couples to wed in the District.

Councilmember Mary Cheh described the same-sex marriage issue as "the most important civil rights issue of our era."

"We have the opportunity to cast our votes for justice and fairness," she stated.

After viewing the long list of about 270 witnesses who signed up to testify, councilmember Tommy Wells said it seems as if the issue is between religious organizations and gay rights advocates.

But he stressed that the matter of "justice" and "equality" does not belong to only those two groups.

"We cannot in some way allow this debate to be marginalized between one group that says they represent a religious perspective and one group that says 'please, we want equal rights like everyone else," Wells said at the hearing. "This issue belongs to all of us."

Katherine Pearson-West, one of the witnesses and a traditional marriage supporter, said to label the issue a faith community vs. gay community conflict is "ridiculous."

"All of us have gay people in our families, or friends ... We love them," she said, "but that does that mean they're guaranteed the right of [or] entitled to marriage."

Though the hearing was held to give Washingtonians the opportunity to speak out on the divisive issue, Pearson-West accused the council of making a mockery of democracy.

"All of you have made up your mind. We're here just for window dressing," she charged. "You throw a bone to the religious community ... [but] everybody knows that once you get your foot in the door you're going to do whatever you can to make the ministers, the religious community, whatever, abide by your agenda."

Councilmember Phil Mendelson, who led the hearing, had stated before the testimonies were heard that he believes the D.C. Council represents the majority view among voters which is that of support for same-sex marriage.

He also repeated what most members of the council have been stating for months – that they would not allow a referendum on the issue.

"A matter of fairness and justice should not be subject to a referendum," Mendelson stated.

Last month, supporters of traditional marriage filed with the D.C. Board of Elections a ballot initiative to define marriage in the District of Columbia as between one man and one woman. They have argued that all they want is for the people to be able to exercise their right to have a say and vote on a public policy issue.

"I firmly believe that this legislation is going in the wrong direction," said Bishop Harry R. Jackson, Jr. of Stand for Marriage DC, noting that there is a real possibility that the council will deny the people their right on what he considers the largest public policy issue of their time.

"What happens in our capital will set a new tone in the culture wars of the nation," Jackson, who pastors Hope Christian Church in Beltsville, Md., stated earlier.

Meanwhile, several African American witnesses expressed their outrage over the comparison of same-sex marriage to civil rights.

"I resent anyone who compares same-sex unions to slavery," Bernestine Copeland stated bluntly in a testimony that was full of Bible references.

The District of Columbia has recognized domestic partnerships since 1992. Earlier this year, the D.C. Council unanimously voted to recognize gay and lesbian marriages performed elsewhere.

The hearing on the Religious Freedom and Civil Marriage Equality Amendment Act of 2009 will resume on Nov. 2.

Sort by: Newest | Oldest | Agree | Disagree
All comments on this page are subject to our Terms of Use and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Christian Post or its staff.
1 | 2
  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    norman, did a little googling and here's what I found. In 1994 the divorce rate was 2.4 per 1,000 marriages and that was ten years before same-sex marriage was legal. In 2007 the divorce rate was 2.3 per 1,000 marriages and that was three years after same-sex marriage became legal. So while we might commend them for having such a low divorce rate, it does not appear same-sex marriage is a determining factor.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    norman, considering you provide no statistics to show this with the years that these statistics were taken in conjunction when same-sex marriage became legal it is very hard to either support or dispute your claim.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:00 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    believer-same sex marraige is actually strengthening marriage-it is FACT
    In MA, the first state to allow same sex marriages, divorce is lowest in the country
    Please dispute

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:58 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    wow-I didn't know black people could be so bigoted
    It is simply wrong for people to even be voting on someone else's civil rights
    I love that our capitol will soon have gay marriage
    Someone needs to remind the blacks that had people voted on their civil rights or on interracial marriage 40 years ago, they'd still be in the fields and "jumping teh broom"

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, in other words I am the source!!! And you have yet to provide any valid statistics to support your foul and vile claim which is nothing but a blatant lie!!!

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, because I was present at the Annual Meeting that issued the resolution and in fact I personally voted on the resolution and as a representative of the SBC I am active in encouraging and assisting local churches in putting guidelines in place to ensure to the best of their ability these incidents are eradicated completely or at worst as minimal as possible!!

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:33 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:18 pm al, perhaps if you read the whole article you would have seen what the SBC is doing to eliminate this problem. But per usual it appears you've made up your mind in this matter so your not interested in either facts or the truth. I have told you first hand what the SBC is encouraging their churches to do as well as what a number of churches are doing already and I've even shared specifically what the Kentucky Baptist Convention is making available to its local churches and missions.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: No one is stopping you from posting quotes from it and then giving links to the source you quote from.

    Why then haven't you done that? One reason is that what you are saying isn't supported in what you claim does. Post the quotes and the links if it's there otherwise you are just continuing to make this up without the outside verifiable evidence.
    That is the real problem for you when you have to actually support your position you know you can't with anything form a reliable source and that is why you haven't done that here!
    TFR

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, plus where are your validated statistics to prove your foul and vile accusation which is a blatant lie that a majority of pedophiles are running wild in SBC churches? And I want statistics not the assumptions made by Christa Brown.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, perhaps if you read the whole article you would have seen what the SBC is doing to eliminate this problem. But per usual it appears you've made up your mind in this matter so your not interested in either facts or the truth. I have told you first hand what the SBC is encouraging their churches to do as well as what a number of churches are doing already and I've even shared specifically what the Kentucky Baptist Convention is making available to its local churches and missions.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:34 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:10 pm al, give me a break, anybody with half a brain realizes that regardless how stringent the guidelines are there will unfortunately be these types of incidents regardless of the denomination or use of a national database.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: You said go to the following sites and read about what is being done, well I did and found the quote.

    You need to post these quotes you claim that the sbc is correctly and sufficiently taking the necessary steps to put together a national database to root out these child molesters and pedophiles in the sbc.

    It doesn't show up searching for the following terms:
    Child molesters
    national database
    pedophiles

    Certainly is proving that the sbc doesn't care and HAD to stop covering up for the preacher when the attacks by him got so out of hand.

    So where are your quotes from those sites that show what they are doing? It certainly isn't establishing a national database, they simply don't care and allow these sick people to run wild. I hope the parents are keeping a close eye on their kids or keeping them out of those places to prevent the molesting preachers from attacking the kids.

    TFR

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, give me a break, anybody with half a brain realizes that regardless how stringent the guidelines are there will unfortunately be these types of incidents regardless of the denomination or use of a national database. The goal is to eradicate the problem completely but the reality is these incidents will happen and we need to do all in our power to keep them to a minimum and indeed the SBC is encouraging local churches to do just that and indeed many of them are and these types of incidents are not only decreasing but those found guilty are being severely dealt with.

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:31 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:10 amal, this supposed anger of mine has nothing to do with the articles, but with your foul and vile false accusations that pedophiles are hiding out in the SBC and the SBC is allowing this!
    -----------------------------------------------
    In Response: Where on the site is this to be found, since you defend them you have to put up the proof to show that they took steps to create a national database, which they haven't. No excuses now show the proof.

    I did find this on there:
    Sexual charge filed against Ark. minister

    Posted on Apr 27, 2009 | by Staff
    BENTON, Ark. (BP)--Allegations of sexual indecency with a child prompted Arkansas authorities to arrest David Kent Pierce, minister of music at First Baptist Church in Benton, Ark., on April 24. Pierce, 56, was immediately terminated by the church, where he had served on staff 29 years.
    http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=30375

    Sure looks like it is still going on and nothing has been done to stop these pedophiles preachers and members from molesting the children. You just can't seem to admit to anything and there is the evidence from the very website you TOLD me to go to!!!!!!

    TFR

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, plus is your self-image that poor that you must constantly gloat over what you consider to be winning a contest. The sad thing is you started a contest based on your own rules and thought nothing of violating your own rules and changing your own rules in a feeble attempt to win it. When I was growing up I remember kids like you coming to the playground and doing the same thing. You might consider growing up as most of them did and stopped playing those silly games! Oh and by the way to this point you have won neither of these contests!!

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:00 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, my proof is being at the meeting and seeing these actions acted out in the churches of my association and I have given you two websites you can go to but you apparently are refusing to do. Plus, none of your so-called proofs in anyway validated your foul and vile accusation with regards to the SBC being the hiding place for a majority of pedophiles!

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:10 am al, this supposed anger of mine has nothing to do with the articles, but with your foul and vile false accusations that pedophiles are hiding out in the SBC and the SBC is allowing this!
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: I posted verifiable citations for my position, including something from 2009, you however haven't posted anything to back up your obvious anger.

    So where is this proof, if you got then post it otherwise we can chalk up another win for me and make it a complete loss record for you.

    TFR

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:10 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, this supposed anger of mine has nothing to do with the articles, but with your foul and vile false accusations that pedophiles are hiding out in the SBC and the SBC is allowing this!

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, that's a simple fix, you can go to sbc.net and bpnews.net and find all the info you need!!

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    believer »Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:14 pm al, I've already given you the facts and you simply refuse to accept them. And as a matter of fact I am presently at the Kentucky Baptist Convention Annual Meeting and one of the programs being presented is the Safe Church Initiative which will be provided to any KBC church free of charge and will provide them with the tools they will need to prevent these types of incidents without the SBC having to establish a national database and will keep us from violating the autonomy of the local church. Thus proving your vile and rude comments are without merit.
    --------------------------------------------------
    In Response: first off I have provided links to everything I wrote. Where are yours,you make claims but provide nothing to cross check your claims.

    Now, let me know when you can back up your claims and in the mean time drop this air of anger, I gave you the sources, you just can't deal with the truth.

    TFR

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, I've already given you the facts and you simply refuse to accept them. And as a matter of fact I am presently at the Kentucky Baptist Convention Annual Meeting and one of the programs being presented is the Safe Church Initiative which will be provided to any KBC church free of charge and will provide them with the tools they will need to prevent these types of incidents without the SBC having to establish a national database and will keep us from violating the autonomy of the local church. Thus proving your vile and rude comments are without merit.

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    • Alockslee » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:30 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0
    wowie » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:28 pm
    -------------------------------------------------
    In Response: since we can't trust your source Holding to be accurate, please post the original pages he quotes and then show form a court action where any of this was ruled as law in the US as you claim.

    Putting up a citation is NOT explaining it, you simply went and posted Holding who I already proved makes blanket unproved conclusions completely unsupported and not in anyway valid to use in this challenge.
    --------------------------------

    Ok, Alockslee, you've been talking a lot of smack. James Patrick Holding himself has challenged you to a debate at TheologyWeb.com (where he holds all his online debates).

    No excuses now. Here's your chance to silence the founder of Tekton Apologetics Ministry once and for all. You've made your accusations about him and his work; now it's time to meet his challenge and back them up.

    (Since I don't know in which forum you are currently active, I'll post this where I hope you'll find it.)

  • Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:31 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »
    Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:43 pm
    ---------------------------------------------
    In Response: believer all you have posted is unsupported "no it isn't" comments. where are you facts in this debate? You don't post any, and you don't show the molestations have not occurred or reduced in numbers.

    So do you have anything to back up your comments or not? This is most likely just going to be another situation where you won't do anything more but just make a few more comments give no supporting data or links, then claim it is fruitless to try like you continue to do.

    Once again put up your proof and stop this denying of the truth of what is taking place, as the children deserve to be protected from your pedophile preachers.
    TFR

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    al, the only thing you posted was the much known fact that the SBC was not willing to allowed themselves to be bullied into violating our view of the autonomy of the local church. What neither you nor Ms. Brown have provided is any data showing that not adopting a national database has caused the number of incidents to increase or has kept SBC churches from doing thorough background checks without this database and most importantly that they are unable to put guidelines in place to ensure these types of incidents do not occur!! The only thing you and Ms. Brown have provided is an exhibit of what happens when one can't bully others into following their demands which they have no business dictating to others in the first place.

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:55 am al, you act as if Brown is an expert of some sort and she's not she is simply an advocate for survivors which I highly applaud her for being but she cannot speak for all if any of the churches in the SBC other than her own. The reality is that there are tools and agencies out there that any local church can access to ensure as much as possibler that they hire no known predators and put guidelines in place to ensure as much as possible these incidents don't take place in their churches.
    --------------------------------
    In response: She certainly has smacked you upside the head! You can't even refute with evidence that what she says isn't true. By your own omissions, you prove what was said to be true.

    Thanks for proving that the sbc doesn't care to protect the kids.

    TFR

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »
    Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:00 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0 Flag

    al, another blatant lie, you make the foolish assumption that simly because the SBC did not give into the pressure of establishing a national database rather than violate the autonomy of the local church that they did nothing. When in fact as I stated earlier they have indeed encouraged and have made resources available for local associations and local churches to accomplish accurate background checks and establish guidelines to prevent these incidents from happening!!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: I posted the supporting evidence, you only make claims. Where is your supporting evidence that refutes the evidence and directly responds to what I posted.

    When you show something beyond blanket disclaimers then you can begin to debate, up til now it is again a bunch of "no it isn't"claims and unsupported by anything from you.

    TFR

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, another blatant lie, you make the foolish assumption that simly because the SBC did not give into the pressure of establishing a national database rather than violate the autonomy of the local church that they did nothing. When in fact as I stated earlier they have indeed encouraged and have made resources available for local associations and local churches to accomplish accurate background checks and establish guidelines to prevent these incidents from happening!!

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, you act as if Brown is an expert of some sort and she's not she is simply an advocate for survivors which I highly applaud her for being but she cannot speak for all if any of the churches in the SBC other than her own. The reality is that there are tools and agencies out there that any local church can access to ensure as much as possibler that they hire no known predators and put guidelines in place to ensure as much as possible these incidents don't take place in their churches.

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:41 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    believer, here is a news article from 2009: http://www.perrybulwer.com/religion-and-child-abuse-news/2009/1/23/former-baptist-youth-worker-pleads-guilty-to-molestation-cha.html

    The SBC Executive Committee added resources for preventing sexual abuse to its website, but in the end said the responsibility for weeding out sexual predators lies with local churches and not the denomination.

    The Florida megachurch "has more resources than most Baptist churches," said Christa Brown of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests. "If a church such as this one couldn't manage to uncover prior allegations and charges against a minister, how likely is it that other churches can?"

    "It is delusional for Southern Baptist leaders to keep thinking that local churches can handle the scourge of clergy sex abuse on their own," said Brown, who lobbied unsuccessfully for two years for an SBC abuse database.

    "And background checks will never be enough because most active child molesters have never been convicted of anything," Brown said. "For the protection of children in Baptist churches, a strong, cooperative, denomination-wide effort is required."

    SEE local churches can't do it properly, it requires a NATION WIDE DATABASE to stop this from continuing. The sbc doesn't want this because too many of the members would be exposed for their sick disgusting criminal backgrounds. Why are you defending them against protecting children? If the sbc were concerned about these pedophiles being found and properly kept away from molesting kids they would do the proper act and establish the Nation wide Database and then do background checks and rid their churches of these vile, sick disgusting predators once and for all.

    TFR

  • Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    believer »Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:24 pm al, that article was written in 2004 and only spoke to churches in Texas and it appears they are indeed doing things to prevent the problem without a national database and it is working.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: Really, well saying isn't proving it, where is your supporting information? If this is happening then please post some information that backs you up. instead of just making yet another coverall blanket "no it isn't" claim.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/817597/southern_baptists_reject_pedophile.html?cat=9, From 2008!

    "Delegates representing the 16 million strong Southern Baptist Convention rejected calls for a data base to screen church workers in order to identify pedophiles, and elected Dr. Johnny Hunt, pastor of a large Atlanta area mega-church on the first ballot.
    Under pressure to respond to child sex abuse, the executive committee of the largest Protestant denomination in the United States rejected the idea of forming a data base to assist churches in identifying sexual predators and refused to establish an office to field abuse claims."

    In 2008 they REJECTED IT! Time Magazine, DEC 2008 barely a year ago and still no changes: http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2008/12/someday.html

    Sorry believer, but even the latest coverage shows nothing done to stop the molesters in the sbc. So why is the sbc working so hard to protect the pedophiles while ignoring the membership's calls for a central database, the reason "autonomy", well the children's safety is more important than autonomy of some church!

    The sbc is simply ignoring the problem and by doing so pretends it will go away, which it wont'!

    You defend their actions which shows you are in favor of letting these pedophiles remain hidden and free to molest the children in the churches, if you weren't you would condemn the sbc and join the rest of us in making them establish a central database and do full background checks on everyone to weed out these sickening pedophiles in your ranks and with thousands of reported molestations you can't ignore it is happening.
    TFR

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, that article was written in 2004 and only spoke to churches in Texas and it appears they are indeed doing things to prevent the problem without a national database and it is working.

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, please quit with your lies and false accusations towards myself and the Southern Baptist Convention!! As Director of Missions I am constantly encouraging all of our churches to do thorough background checks and provide appropriate training to prevent any such incidents from occuring. And the SBC is in no way obligated to establish a national database and even if they did that does not guarantee these problems will stop and in fact they are still occuring in organizations that have or are a part of a national database. Plus, my posts have nothing to do with being defensive but just responding to your foul and vile accusations and your blatant lies as well!

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:04 pm al, what's sickening is that your own statistics show that your foul and vile accusation was a blatant lie considering 12% of the cases she dealt with were committed by Southern Baptist ministers and you stated that a large majority of pedophiles are located in Southern Baptist Churches. Plus, if you read the article closer you would see that a majority of those cases occured before churches and denominations had safeguards in place to prevent them. And as I said the SBC and specifically SBC churches are doing their part to prevent these incidents and are indeed seeing success and doing it without a national database!! But as I said this task will not be complete until there are none of these incidents taking place.
    -------------------------------------------------
    In Response: Refute the evidence, you alreadly stated they didn't do it and the article about the molestation covers the ONGOING violations as well as the past.

    The sbc haven't done anything with regard to a national database they are obligated to do it and refuse. Stop crying about it and fix the problem already!!!

    If all those pedophiles were running loose in a church it is everybody's problem to root them out and get them behind bars, what are you doing down there, believer sounds like you are in favor of letting them run rampant.

    What State do you live in? believer is in favor of letting pedophiles escape being found and rounded up endangering the children who live and attend his church. Talk about sickening, EEEEEEWWWWWWWW maybe all this defensive posting by you believer may lead to something you are hiding from and needs investigation into.

    Why so defensive about all these southern baptist pedophiles and child molesters in your church believer, sounds very serious indeed.

    We all need to protect the children against those pedophiles in believer's church and make sure no other children are attacked.
    A Baptist-published brochure states that 35% of ministers surveyed "had engaged in sexually inappropriate behavior." It also states that Protestant clergy are "sexually exploiting their parishioners at twice the rate of secular therapists." (Broken Trust, published by the Christian Life Commission of the BGCT)

    http://stopbaptistpredators.org/htm/AlarmingNumbers.htm
    TFR

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, what's sickening is that your own statistics show that your foul and vile accusation was a blatant lie considering 12% of the cases she dealt with were committed by Southern Baptist ministers and you stated that a large majority of pedophiles are located in Southern Baptist Churches. Plus, if you read the article closer you would see that a majority of those cases occured before churches and denominations had safeguards in place to prevent them. And as I said the SBC and specifically SBC churches are doing their part to prevent these incidents and are indeed seeing success and doing it without a national database!! But as I said this task will not be complete until there are none of these incidents taking place.

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:53 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »
    Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:17 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 0 Flag

    al, and no you by no means answered my question, you made a foul and vile accusation saying that a large majority of pedophiles are located in Southern Baptist Churches and the only thing you provide to support that blatant lie is that we don't have an uneeded national database in place. Which in no way substatiates your blatant lie!! So you in no way answered my question, but what else is new!!
    --------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: believer how many is large enough for you the previous post confirms it:

    "Dee Miller, an author and former Southern Baptist missionary, has been ministering to sex abuse survivors for the past 15 years. She reports that, from Christian faiths, about 2500 clergy abuse survivors have contacted her during that time, and that at least 300 of those were people abused by Southern Baptist clergy. One-third to one-half were abused as minors. Dee's ministry is conducted on a shoestring - with no funding, no resources, and no support of any kind from the denomination. How much greater would these numbers be, and how many more abuse survivors could be helped, if the denomination would provide the funding and commitment for a genuine outreach and education effort? According to studies, there are as many clergy sex offenders among Baptists as among Catholics."
    http://stopbaptistpredators.org/htm/AlarmingNumbers.htm

    Sickening and you continue to support it saying autonomy is more important than keeping your fellow pedophiles from molesting children. They are even allowing convicted pedophiles to preach to kids! EEEWWWWWWWWW!

    TFR

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:11 am al, and once again your ignorance of the autonomy of the local church and the Southern Baptist Convention is profound. You make these outlandish accusations and then you can't back them up, not unusual for you. We don't need a national database to protect children and there is absolutely no data to say this problem is any bigger in our SBC churches then in any other. And while one case of this is one case too many we don't need a national database in place to effectively prevent this problem in local churches.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: Here believer look at this website about your lack of information:

    http://stopbaptistpredators.org/htm/AlarmingNumbers.htm

    "A Baptist-published brochure states that 35% of ministers surveyed "had engaged in sexually inappropriate behavior." It also states that Protestant clergy are "sexually exploiting their parishioners at twice the rate of secular therapists." (Broken Trust, published by the Christian Life Commission of the BGCT)"

    WOW published by the baptists themselves!!! Looks like your wrong by your own church's words, you gonna deny the truth of it now? Look You asked about their refusal to put up a database and then you admit they didn't. Next you say autonomy gives them the right to ignore the problem and think it is alright to continue to allow these pedophiles in your church. Wow do they have YOU brainwashed into thinking they aren't in there in droves!!

    Next you will be saying child molesters are acceptable to continue if they just convert to YOUR brand of nonsense. It isn't acceptable in any setting, these sick perverted members of your sect are hurting children you can't condone their behavior.

    " Penn State professor Philip Jenkens reports that between 2 to 3 percent of Protestant clergy are pedophiles. The same study reports that less than 1.7 percent of Catholic priests are pedophiles. There is simply no reason to think that clergy child molesters are solely a Catholic problem.

    Dee Miller, an author and former Southern Baptist missionary, has been ministering to sex abuse survivors for the past 15 years. She reports that, from Christian faiths, about 2500 clergy abuse survivors have contacted her during that time, and that at least 300 of those were people abused by Southern Baptist clergy."
    http://stopbaptistpredators.org/htm/AlarmingNumbers.htm
    Stop denying the truth believer! It is right there to see and accept published by the southern baptists themselves.
    TFR

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:17 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, and no you by no means answered my question, you made a foul and vile accusation saying that a large majority of pedophiles are located in Southern Baptist Churches and the only thing you provide to support that blatant lie is that we don't have an uneeded national database in place. Which in no way substatiates your blatant lie!! So you in no way answered my question, but what else is new!!

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:11 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, and once again your ignorance of the autonomy of the local church and the Southern Baptist Convention is profound. You make these outlandish accusations and then you can't back them up, not unusual for you. We don't need a national database to protect children and there is absolutely no data to say this problem is any bigger in our SBC churches then in any other. And while one case of this is one case too many we don't need a national database in place to effectively prevent this problem in local churches.

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:59 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    believer »
    Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:41 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0 Flag

    al, it doesn't refute them at all it affirms them
    -----------------------------------------------
    In Response: Did they set up a database or not? No they didn't, sorry but autonomy is not an excuse to forgo a sex offenders database to protect children.

    I don't care what excuse you give my point was they didn't vote to put one up period. The article backs me up, you asked and I gave you the proof.

    TFR

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:41 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    al, it doesn't refute them at all it affirms them. Southern Baptists are firm believers in the autonomy of the local church and in the view of the leadership of the convention and by the vote of the messengers to last year's Annual Meeting we voted not to establish such a data base as it would be seen as a clear violation of the autonomy of the local church. But that same resolution also cited the importance of background checks and encouraged all SBC churches and agencies to do them on both paid staff and volunteers and especially those working with children and youth. And it also stated our adamant disapproval of this type of behavior by anyone but most especially those in the ministry.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:32 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    believer »
    Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:02 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0 Flag

    al, your ignorance of the Southern Baptist Convention is apparent in not understanding the autonomy of the local church. The SBC does thorough background checks on all their employees both for the SBC,
    -----------------------------------------
    In Response: How is this to refute your contentions:

    Southern Baptists Reject Sex-Abuse Database

    http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080611/southern-baptists-reject-sex-abuse-database/index.html
    Wow right here in CP!!!!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, your ignorance of the Southern Baptist Convention is apparent in not understanding the autonomy of the local church. The SBC does thorough background checks on all their employees both for the SBC, International Mission Board, North American Mission Board and all our Seminaries. They cannot force local associations and the local churches to do the same, but they highly encourage them to and make themselves available to assist associatians and local churches in doing them by providing both the resources and personnel to assist them in doing them. In the Association I am Director of Missions over, I know many if not all our churches do background checks and I do highly encourage them to do them for both paid staff and volunteers and especially for those working with children and youth.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, and once again several years ago at our Annual Meeting we passed a resolution saying we were indeed wrong with regards to slavery and prejudice in our past and we repented of that and have made great in roads in ministering to and with minorities in our nation and throughout the world!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:51 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    al, the inbreds I stem from, and your false assumption for that is??

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    al, you're losing it, I have already shared why I am opposed to same-sex marriage, but I did not provide you with a suitable secular reason for you. And the reality is I don't need to provide you with a secular reason for being opposed to same-sex marriage!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:47 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    al, what an ignorant bigoted remark that you have absolutely no valid proof for!! And I was not making that comparison at all, what I was saying if you're going to assume that because a certain group of people support an issue that all other people who support that issue support them you're wrong. NAMBLA heavily supports same-sex marriage, but I in no way believe everyone who supports same-sex mariage supports NAMBLA!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »
    Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:23 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0 Flag

    al, my secular reason, I am opposed to same-sex marriage! When I go to vote it is no one's business but mine on what and whom I vote for, I as a citizen am not required to defend my choices but I am guaranteed the right to vote my choices!!
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    In response: So you are afraid to admit to the reasons behind your choices, sounds to me that you are being quite defensive about them.

    Why the defensive posture over your solely religious basis for the denial of Civil Rights to a minority class of people? If you were that convinced of your foundation then you would be much more proud of it, instead you cower and act defensively when asked to discuss them.

    Again your flip flop on the issue definitely makes me concerned about your mental stability, so please do consult a mental health professional and agree to be examined ASAP for your own best interests and especially for those in your community to safe guard against any sudden urges to act out on them.

    TFR

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:50 pm al, there is no doubt in my mind that a minority of people have that view, but there are a minority of people on both sides of this issue who along with their view of same-sex marriage have bizarre views on other issues and for you to say to me or me to say to you that we believe what they believe is totally unfair to either of us.
    ----------------------------------------------------
    In Response So now you flip flop again, which is it, either they did it or they didn't do it.

    As to you other accusation, don't even start with that sicko bunch, they are fully funded by the in-breds you stem from. A large majority of pedophiles are located within the southern baptist church and they refuse to even do a background check to weed out the sick perverts.

    You obviously have some connection with them since you constantly bring them up as examples which raises the question about your personal problems.

    Hmmmmmmmmm, first we note schizophrenic tendencies and now you inject a perverted society, that would indicate you think about them quite a bit. Interesting that you continue bring this up repeatedly, it definitely would provide reasonable cause for a psychologist to place you under observation. Have you spoken to any mental health professionals about these thoughts you are having, it would be a good idea to do so right away.

    TFR
    Looks like they did.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, there is no doubt in my mind that a minority of people have that view, but there are a minority of people on both sides of this issue who along with their view of same-sex marriage have bizarre views on other issues and for you to say to me or me to say to you that we believe what they believe is totally unfair to either of us. It would be like me saying that if you're in favor of same-sex marriage you must be in favor of pedophilia since NAMBLA is a big supporter of same-sex marriage!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer »Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:14 pm al, the only problem is God has never opposed interracial marriage and there is absolutely no valid scripture that says otherwise!
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    In Response: Please make sure you reply to what I said, not what you misinterpret my post to something I did not say.

    My post dealt with the use of the bible to support southern baptists who interpreted quotes from it to back up their claims it was forbidden under it. You are saying you aren't saying that and I never said you did. I only offered that example to illustrate the fact the bible has been used before to deny Civil Rights and the court struck it down and those people who relied upon it gave up on that as time passed and acceptance grew for interracial marriages.
    http://criswell.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ctrhaysformatted1.pdf, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws
    -------------------
    "The first website that came up on my Google search for Martin Luther King and interracial marriage was the website of the Ku Klux Klan which still has this anachronistic quote today: “Interracial marriage is a violation of God’s Law and a communist ploy to weaken America.”
    http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2005/198_Racial_Harmony_and_Interracial_Marriage/
    --------------------
    There are many more sites that cover this.
    TFR

  • Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, the only problem is God has never opposed interracial marriage and there is absolutely no valid scripture that says otherwise!!

  • Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, and once again I don't need a secular reason to be opposed to same-sex marriage the same way I don't need a secular reason to believe in God and to adhere to the truths He teaches us in His Word. And considering God is eternal and marriage has been His idea for all eternity and He instituted marriage in the first place I have no problem saying that one man and one woman is God's original and only design for marriage!!

Please help us to monitor our message boards by flagging comments that are unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable.
Contact Us if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Comment on this story
ID Password

Don't have a Christian Post ID? Signing up is easy. Click Here

  • icon1
  • icon2
  • icon3
  • icon4
  • icon5
The Christian Post reserves the right to terminate the account of any User who violates our Terms of Use.
Also on CP
Advertisement
Advertisement
CP Shopping
  • Jewelry
  • Health
  • Gifts
  • Music
  • Coins

Bracelets | Chains | Crosses | Earrings | Gemstone |

Featured contents & Giveaways
Joolwe :
Cross-pendant necklace
Zondervan

Struggling to succeed in the Nashville music scene, talented singer/songwriter Parker James finds the competition fierce even deadly. A young woman's murder, industry corruption, a

Featured Advertiser Links