Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Church|Tue, Aug. 04 2009 01:00 PM EDT

Megachurch Pastor Guides Christians on Alcohol, R-Rated Movies

By Audrey Barrick|Christian Post Reporter

Drinking alcohol, watching R-rated movies and cussing are just some of the countless "gray" areas in the Christian life.

Hoping to help guide Christians, new and seasoned alike, on issues that are not spelled out in black and white in the Bible, one Charlotte, N.C., pastor offered them a framework from which they can make their own decisions.

"I'm not going to give you an answer key," said Pastor Steven Furtick of Elevation Church during his sermon this past weekend. "I'm not going to try to make black and white issues out of what's gray in the Word of God. That would be malpractice on my part. I'm not going to back down either from making a black and white issue out of a clearly right and wrong scriptural issue."

Opposing legalism, or "beating people up" with the Bible, the young megachurch pastor cautioned Christians against making an absolute truth out of their own personal preference.

"That's where we get in trouble," he said.

Rather than make a Christian boycott list, he encouraged believers to ask themselves three questions when dealing with a gray issue: "Is it best? Does it build (others up)? Does it bind?"

"Just because I can doesn't mean I should," the Elevation pastor emphasized.

Addressing Christians who may be compromising some of their values or beliefs or involved in activities that are sabotaging their spiritual growth, Furtick said, "You might get to heaven when you die and you might not burn in hell for it, but there's probably a smarter way to do it."

"It might not be a wrong thing; it might just be a stupid thing," he added.

Rather than approach gray matters from the "how far can I compromise and still go to heaven" stance, Furtick challenged them to take a different approach.

"Stop trying to get as close to the edge as you can and start trying to stay as close to the source (God) as possible," he urged.

Reminding Christians that they've been bought with a price, Furtick stressed, "Our Christian liberty is not a license to be idiots or to flirt with sin."

Addressing some of the practical and hot button issues, the Charlotte pastor briefly touched on alcohol and R-rated movies.

For Furtick, his personal legalism is not drinking – not because he thinks it's bad but because his family has had generations of alcoholics.

He also noted that he's bothered by preachers who preach against drinking when they're, for example, overweight.

"The Bible has more to say about gluttony than it does about drinking," he said.

When it comes to R-rated movies, Furtick pointed out that there are network sitcoms that teach disrespectful attitude toward parents and are "way more sinful" than R-rated movies.

On a personal level, he explained that at times he chooses not to watch such movies not because he is trying to please other Christians (because you'll never please all of them, he noted) but because it might not leave the best impression especially on an unbeliever.

"I can't make a career out of catering to other Christians, but I can make it a priority to protect my testimony," he stressed.

Furtick's sermon was part of Elevation's "Cow Tipping" series which addressed questions that are often avoided in churches. Elevation Church has touted itself as a church that is not afraid to talk about any issue.

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  • Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:01 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    An "R" rated movie can not be judged by it's rating!!!! Movies are entertainment. and Some of the shows on "sitcoms" and "talk shows" today are worse than most "R" rated movies.
    I know there are more important things to worry about than an "R" rated movie. I am a believer in God, Jesus. Once more it is your "own" heart that has to answer at the end. God, Jesus is not going to con-dim anyone to hell for simply watching an "R" rated movie so long as your are old enough and wise enough to not follow the acts in the film.
    Also I would like to ad, I hear a lot of Christians that have tried to speak words to the dying on their death bed and the person simply doesn't want to talk about it ... If someone is on their death bed when they are approached they are either not in their right mind at that moment or just simply don't want to discuss it with just anyone; Don't feel bad and think that person is going straight to hell.

  • Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    NC,

    See, your man made thoughts are to think that those of us that have a beer or two and never come near being drunk are doing so to "walk the edge" or something foolish like that demonstrates your immaturity.
    Again, you don't bring anything biblical to the table, just bluster.
    Yahweh is the Father's name? Do you have an issue with this? Multiple wives? Can't even see where that little tidbit came from....

    BTW, no, I am a Conservative Baptist but thanks for your demonstration of immaturity again ASSUMING that you know others when you don't.

    Mature brothers (as Paul refers to in the 2 Corinthians that I referenced earlier) are just that, mature. We don't need to dance on any edge, we know where the edge is and we can voluntarily stay on this side of the line because we wish to please the King and not men. If this is not understandable for you I recommend finding a mature brother and ask him to mentor you. Mature doesn't mean aged either (although there is certainly very many elder brothers who are mature).

    In the end, being a modern day Pharisee and having little maturity and making silly comments ASSUMING you have knowledge of someone when you obviously do not begs for a disciple-maker to disciple you and help you mature. On this subject you are the weaker brother and you are disobeying God's word (again that 2 Corinthians passage reference previously) by trying to make others bow to your desires. My friend, please find a mature brother at your local body to help you, or find one near you if there are none at your local gathering.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Let this not become a red herring like so many of your points are but... let this be seperate so help me


    Yahweh? Yea that's God's name ... are you a JW or something? Or do you just think that multiple wives are cool .... yeah you know what im drivin at

  • Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    And robutusion my friend ? What a red herring If i ever heard of one.

    have fun leading people to the bleak grey area of christianity.

    Sinking sand? To resort to that is just pathetic. My argument is the furthest thing from sinking sand ...

    In America (like I said) you drink to get drunk ... if you as a Christian try to make a revolution of CONGRADULATIONS YOU CAN HAVE A BEER but (not two if your a small girl you could get buzzed ... how drunk is drunk?)

    you can have that and keep that and infect people like that if you wish--

    robotusion or however you spell that? sinking sand? Talk about logical fallicies.

    And I'm so glad that you've decided to tell the world that ONE BEER GUYS ITS SOOO IMPORTANT!!! again what a sad thing to defend .... "what do you defend" oh well See i get to show people I CAN HAVE ONE BEER and keep my SINKING ego at the same time because this alchohal conversation really kicks mine up.

  • Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:37 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Wow... That's my goal in life...

    to show the world how close to drunk as I can get ... God bless the U.S.A.

    ya know I know personal experience is never the best argument bla bla bla but my old friend never intended to get drunk one timee just had a beer that is it drove over to a friends partie (one beer) then it led to another and another and another and then good christian girl lost her virginity now she is lost in the world big time.

    If your "Super" goal is to show the world that you can have WOW one beer and WOW drive and not get drunk because you have control over you mind... that's the type of Christian story I want to tell everyone ...

    America is tired of people trying to prove things to them and straddling the fence with God -- God has called us to live hardcore radical lives that is EXTREMELY different than the unbeliever's mr peabody.

  • Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:21 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    NC,

    WOW! Showing the non-believers and believers alike that a Christian can;

    1. Obey God's commands in spirit and in word,
    2. One can drink alcohol and not be some drunkard (as commanded by Scripture)
    3. Not giving up what is His and a gift to us to be used wisely

    is sinful and hypocritical is patently absurd! You build your case on the sinking sand of everything else but Scripture my friend. Your inability to discern between truth and falsehood, Scriptural commands and those commands of men (not from Scripture) is dangerous and sad.

    It is undeniable that Scripture does not teach abstinence from alcohol or even hint of abstinence. That was demonstrated by your lack of biblical response to the biblical witness I posted. Then you substituted your own personal opinion about why the world drinks (which is probably true) and attempt to make some silly statement. Following your statement I should not;

    1. Drive a car because most of the world drives cars in an improper and God dishonoring fashion. My desire to enjoy a ride in the country is a bad example to others and hurts my witness.
    2. I should not take medications that contain alcohol (like say Robitussen[?]) which much of the kids of the world use to get inebriated. Using such medications is a bad example obviously.
    3. There is no need for another 1 or 5 examples, the point is made....

    Unfortunately, it is those in your camp that built over 600 laws in order to not transgress the laws that Yahweh gave His people Israel. Your camp makes stumbling blocks, silly non-biblical rules and follow man-made rules in order to, "please God" and "witness to the world." Your camp does neither my friend.

    Either you are someone with limited biblical knowledge in this area, a former addict or a combination of both. If you can't drink and not get drunk, please stay away from alcohol because it would be sin for you. Otherwise, we can agree to disagree but I cannot and will not endorse your unbiblical position and attitude.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:57 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    So the motivation behind drinking alcohol and defending it is because you enjoy the taste of a "good beer." The typical American stumbling block. One has to wonder if they had a different culture in the new testament and now. In America the overwhelming populous to drink is to get drunk. It's people like you that make the Christian walk look hypocrytical. I rest my case.

  • Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    NC,

    What is the motivation for drinking alcohol? I would think that is different for many people. Some I know drink for the health benefits (one of my friends is a diabetic and doctor's orders are for 1-2 glasses a day for him because it is good for his health.

    I drink some alcoholic drinks because I enjoy a good beer. I don't get drunk or buzzed but drink for the enjoyment of the taste of a substance Yahweh has said is perfectly fine to drink as long as I am in control of my mind.

    I have a brother and very close friend who can't drink at all because he can't control his drinking of alcoholic beverages. I would NEVER drink in front of him, offer him a drink nor have it in the fridge when he comes over. I don't cause him to stumble because I love him and obey God's command given through Paul in his letter to the Corinthian church. For my brother it is a sin to drink or to try to have one because it would be doing so against his conscience.

    So in the end, I can only speak of myself and others who tell me why and I don't make assumptions about others specifically. Let us remember that Paul specifically tells us that the stronger brother is not to entice the younger brother but that also the younger brother doesn't get to tell the stronger brother he can't eat or drink what is permitted (1 Cor 8).

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:15 am Agree: 9   Disagree: 0

    While I would happily discuss the merrits of alcohol what is of greater presidence is the motivation behind its consumption. The consumption is a symptom of underlying issues. So tell me this why is it so important for you to justify the consumption of alcohol?

  • Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:55 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 19

    tiyrowsh - Newly pressed wine (grape juice, unfermented and Non-alcoholic) wine (Prov 3.10; Isa 65.8; Hos 9, etc)
    yayin - fermented grape juice (wine)

    It is important to note that in the Tanakh (the OT), yayin and tirosh are used and differentiated in the same verse (Hos 4:11). Furthermore, it should be recognized that the firstfruits of the vine harvest offered at the Temple involved unfermented grape juice (tirosh) and not wine (Deut 18:3-4; II Chron 31:4-5; Neh 10:37-39; 13:5, 12).

    Also, it is well to note that yayin is Scripturally used in the same text to contrast wine with a vine product called the blood of the grape (Gen 49:11; Deut 32:14; Isa 63:1-3; Rev 14:19-20). Thus, a reference to blood of the grape would not be to wine. Obviously, it would be to tirosh or grape juice. Here, blood is from the Hebrew dam or dawm.

    Strong’s “Hebrew Dictionary” says that dam means “blood (as that which when shed causes death) of man or an animal; by anal. the juice of the grape; fig. (espec. in the plur.) bloodshed (i.e. drops of blood): blood (-y,--guiltiness, [thirsty], + innocent.” The Greek NT uses the Greek “haima” for blood--both of men or grapes (per Strong’s).

    Priests serving YHWH in the Temple were prohibited from drinking yayin while on duty and working (Lev 10.9). In NT times, it is quite certain that YESHUA, Himself, drank fermented wine on occasion because certain Pharisees accused Him of it and He admitted it (Matt 11.18-19).

    At a marriage in Cana of Galilee, YESHUA turned water into wine (not grape juice). Clearly, this was wine because the ruler of the feast acknowledged that every man serves his good wine first at a feast so that when the people had drunk it (and were beginning to be a little intoxicated), the bad wine could be then served when they would not know the difference (Jo 2:10).

    Jesus in Matt 26 speaks of not drinking of the fruit of the wine again until the feast in Heaven. This could mean that Jesus didn't serve wine but it is far from the natural conclusion.

    Jesus drank it and admitted to it, the Temple priests could drink it but not while on duty and Paul says elders and deacons are not to be drunks from it, it is certainly NOT prohibited by Scripture.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 13

    NC,

    Unfortunately the misunderstanding about "wine" is on the part of those in the believing community (which is a very small part of the believing linguistic experts)that attempts to preach about abstinence which Scripture does not teach.

    1 Tim 3 is clear;

    1. not a drunkard (which means don't drink until inebriated
    2. not addicted to much wine (wine isn't addictive unless it is the alcoholic variety otherwise the command is nonsensical)

    1 Tim 3 is the character qualifications for elders and deacons. If Paul wanted to say, "don't drink the kind of wine that you get hammered on" he would have been clear on the point. The context doesn't allow for any other interpretation of the word unless one desires to wrench it out of context and give it a new meaning.

    Speaking of Solomon, Prov 31 says to give strong drink (shekar) and wine (yayin) to those perishing or in distress. Both speak of alcoholic beverages. I guess Solomon under God's direction was advocating giving some of this to those in distress. Notice Solomon didn't say, "give it to them to get hammered." Unless one desires to make up new definitions for these words, Solomon gave advice (just like your Prov quote) from God BTW, to have others sin. I am sorry, I don't believe that was what Solomon said or what God intended.

    Definitions and context make a huge difference in how one interprets Scripture and when one doesn't allow the natural interpretations based on language, context, etc come through, one gets bad doctrine like abstinence being taught.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:01 pm Agree: 14   Disagree: 1

    The Bible does teach total abstinence from alcohol. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine. The English word wine originally had two meanings also - unfermented juice or alcoholic drink.
    2) In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.
    3) The Bible says alcoholic drink is evil. It is not just the amount one drinks that makes drinking a sin. God condemns the drink itself. (Prov 20:1 KJV) Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
    4) God does not lead us into evil; He delivers us from it. He does not teach us to practice evil in moderation. Jesus did not make, use, approve, commend, or tell us to use intoxicating wine.
    5) God made man to have fellowship with Him. Alcohol goes directly to the brain, the communication center of the body. It interferes with God’s purpose for mankind.
    And so when preachers address the issue as grey either their ignorant of looking for a church full of back patters saying “it’s ok to do certain things … all I care about is having an attendance of thousands”

  • Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:01 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 0

    2nd 1 timothy 5:23 has been a great downfall in the believers life because of their misrepresentation and lack of understanding regarding the verse. Paul says a little wine will do good for the stomach (talking to timothy here)… well prior to this verse Paul said for deacons and bishops to abstain from alcohol and being drunk. If it is wrong for one to be given to wine and yet he says have a little for the stomach it probably was not alcoholic giving that Paul said do not let sin have even an appearance in your life and not to have a stumbling block of the sort (Romans 14) I doubt he was talking out of both sides of his mouth but rather was referring to grape, pomegranate, pear or apple juices “wine”If kings and priests were to abstain from wine then who are we? Does not the Bible proclaim that the Most Holy of Holies resides and has made his permanent dwelling place within us (Eph 2) John (14). Why does proverbs 23 say that one should not even look at wine when it is fermented? Why is John the Baptist forbidden to have strong drink? Perhaps we are the temple of the holy sprit and Jesus is the New wine. When Jesus said do this in remembrance of me he told them to drink of the cup of wine… if memory serves Jesus would not say remember me from alcohol which prohibits proper memory function.

  • Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:00 pm Agree: 12   Disagree: 2

    Sure thing Old student and Believer.

    Firstly in the Old Testament (and New alike) a lot of times their wells were not deep enough to attain “good water” meaning they used feces sprinklings on the soil and to avoid methane contamination. In the Old they would have their children drink the wine too to avoid such contamination. They would use Grapes, pomegranates, pears and even apples what ever was available or imported.

    There is more Scripture condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.

    But I will go even further and reveal Jesus never drank alcoholic wine nor his disciples promoted alcoholic wine.

    1st argument that will arise is the wedding at Cana. Well here’s the deal if memory serves me correctly Jesus was a Nazarene and drank nothing from the vines. When Jesus made the water into wine the people exclaimed that usually they saved this type until the end of the feast. Non-alcoholic wine fits this description in the Jewish wedding. The young were drinking this wine and the people marveled that the wine tasted fruity… fermented wine does not taste fruity.

  • Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    os, I think he may have been referring to what the Pastor said with regards to more being said about gluttony than drinking alcohol, but like you I too am somewhat confused what he was specifically speaking to.

  • Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:42 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 10

    newcreation,

    Who are you referring to? I haven't seen any preacher advocate drunkenness on this string.
    In the ESV, wine (and the word wine alone) is used 31x if memory serves. Oinos is used in almost every instance. Paul insists that deacons and elders should not be drunk with wine, he doesn't forbid the drinking of wine.

    I am confused as to the point of your post at this point. Could you give a bit more information so I can understand what you meant?

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:46 pm Agree: 17   Disagree: 3

    Lord purge my heart with hyssop. No slight criticism? I regret so. First of all this is all in Love. Alcohal is addressed way more in the Bible than gluttoney. Of course our Christian Liberty is not to flirt with sin. But how drunk is drunk mr. preacher? How many times is the word wine used in the new testament? Did you know there are different words for wine in the greek that were translated into english? Yup. Let the little foxes in and you get a mega church. I mean a spoiled vineyard.

  • Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:11 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    nuk, God says in Hebrews that is we are a child of His and He is our Heavenly Father that out of His love for us He will discipline us when we sin and if He does not discipline us as a child of His there is good reason to believe we are not His child, rather we are still lost. So while we are forgiven of the eternal consequences of our sins that by no means gives us permission to freely sin or live any way we want.

  • Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:07 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    nuk, don't overdramatize too much or people might confuse you for a cheap grace salvation preacher. The reality is it appears you know what the Bible says a person must do to have a relationship with God through His Son, Jesus Christ. For as long as you've known you have chosen to reject God's truth in this matter, but I can't help but believe if you were dangling over a lake of fire and a lifeline was available to you that unless you're a wee bit strange you like all of us would not grab it. God does not want people to turn to Him simply so they don't go to hell, but rather God desires to have a genuine personal relationship with all peoples, but for that relationship to be genuine and real it required God to create us with a free will, the right to choose to enter into that relationship and the right to choose not to enter that relationship. The choice is yours to make, but like all choices we make there are consequences and depending on the choice we make those consequences can either be positive or negative.

  • Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:28 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "So where does God come into all of this? What I see is a bunch of manmade rules and censorships. "

    The sermon today is called "Maintaining My Joy" which sounds kind of "Christianize" as a title but it's talking about legalism and it's lack of place in Christianity. It should be on the website in a few days. It isn't your usual sermon and it looks like it will answer your questions....

    www.brookwoodchurch.org

  • Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:24 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "God did not write/pen the Bible, but rather God's Holy Spirit superintended the writing of God's Word which allowed each writer to use their own personal writing style to record God's Word without error."

    Most business men have their secretaries write letters and such via dictation and such. Yet, man has such a difficulty with the concept that God, who knew the human who penned it intimately, dictated the Bible and it was written through the experience of the human who penned it.

  • Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:26 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    In terms of whether or not God literally wrote the Bible, I was responding the DelightntheLord, who doesn't seem to see the writing/dictation of the Bible the same way you do, at least through their choice of words.

    "...went to the Cross and shed His precious blood so that all of us, agnostics included, could have the opportunity to be saved from our sins and become a child of God and spend eternity with God in heaven"

    But believer, this is what I find immoral about what the Bible and its fundamentals teach. According to Christianity, God basically looks down on every person, all drowning in a vast ocean because of their sins, and he hangs overhead dangling a life preserver slightly out of reach, Jesus. Anyone who doesn't take the life preserver then burns and suffers throughout eternity. But what this doesn't seem to look at is the righteousness of the people themselves. A rapist acting under what he thinks is Jesus's will can get into heaven, but a perfectly moral, gracious, thoughtful, loving person can reject Jesus because of his implausible story and still live eternity in agony. What's moral about that? Christians get a free ride from all their wrongdoings, no matter how severe, simply by praying to Jesus from day to day, but non-believers can be wonderful people and it doesn't matter?

  • Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:16 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    nuk, God did not write/pen the Bible, but rather God's Holy Spirit superintended the writing of God's Word which allowed each writer to use their own personal writing style to record God's Word without error. Plus the reason we have four separate Gospels is because each of them not only records Christ's life, death, and resurrection, but each has a specific purpose or group of people they are specifically writing to.

  • Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:12 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    nuk, well you're about 2000 years too late considering Jesus Christ, the Son of God, God in the flesh, the 2nd Person of the Godhead, did that already and not only that but more importantly went to the Cross and shed His precious blood so that all of us, agnostics included, could have the opportunity to be saved from our sins and become a child of God and spend eternity with God in heaven.

  • Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:16 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    DelightntheLord: So according to your logic, any religious text that does not portray man in a particularly positive light must have been written by god, because man can't possibly admit to human faults when writing.

    So how do you explain every other religious text or basis that constantly preaches god's ultimate greatness and man's relative atrocity? Isn't that pretty much a general theme in religion in general, that god is the ultimate being and man cannot even come close to his greatness? If only god could write something of the sort, then according to what you say God had to have written the Koran and the Talmud and countless other scriptures. Do you believe this?

    And as a second point, being a Christian and having read the Bible I'm sure, how could you possibly say that everything in the Bible was written by god himself? The Bible itself is a collection of supposed witnessed events and happenings by several people. If God wrote the Bible then why would he come up with multiple gospels according to similar but different viewpoints?

    Believer: As an agnostic I find it very difficult to accept that a book written in the Bronze age is a dictation of the word of god simply because it's what I've always been told by people two thousand years after it was written. I've yet to see proof that this book is anything but a story written by people who were either a little loopy, appropriately superstitious in terms of their time period, or just playing a big, albeit good joke on their people. None of these suggestions may be true as I have seen no definitive proof for them, either, but nonetheless it is proof that I look for. Proof and the ultimate truth, and to the rational part of my mind, so much of what I read in the Bible is implausible, immoral, and contradicting of itself. I mean, really, you have to be honest; whether you believe in it or not, it is fact that the Bible is simply a book that humans have told us preaches the truth of god and his rules. Until god comes and gives us some unambiguous message that it is true, I will not simply accept something for what flawed, imperfect human beings say it is.

  • Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:57 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    The same writer of Philippians was the man quoting Greek poets at Mars Hill. Greek poets were those who spoke of sexual immorality, praised other gods, spoke of worldly things, etc. To study and engage the culture around us is not sinful nor is it a bad thing; it is what we are to do.

    Causing a weaker brother to stumble happens very rarely and Paul speaks also of the weaker brother not thinking he can make the stronger brother obey his desires. If the actions of the stronger brother make the weaker brother sin against his own conscience in that particular area (say...eating meat sacrificed to idols) then he has caused a stumbling. Very rare as far as I can see.

    Jesus' reputation was bad among the religious because he went to the homes and hung out with captives and brought them out of the muck and the mire. He didn't do this while sitting in a protected bubble, He was fully engaged. Our reputation with the world falters because we live in a bubble and have no idea of how the world really lives. If someone can't watch and discern as an adult being led by the Spirit then it is sin for that person but not for others.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:03 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    nuk, as delight shared "people" alone did not write the Word of God, but rather "people" being superintended by the Holy Spirit and chosen by God wrote the Bible which in its original autographs is the God-breathed, inerrant, plenary, Word of God, literally God's Word.
    As for the movies issues God's Word says in Philippians we are to focus on things true, honorable, right, pure, and of good repute and needless to say most R-rated movies display none of those qualities.

  • Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:27 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 0

    Nuk, you ask;

    >>"So where does God come into all of this?"<<

    Well first;

    2Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God...."

    You say;

    >>"People* write the Bible"<<

    Your premise here is faulty.

    Think of it, IF man wrote the Bible....wouldn't man paint a rosier picture of man than the one discribed within Scripture?

    Here's an example:
    Jer 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

    And:

    Rom 3:23 .."for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."

    Rom 3:10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
    There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
    They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."

    My conclusion?

    I see NO MAN could write Scripture.

  • Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Ok so this is the situation here:

    _*People* write the Bible

    -As today's *people* read the Bible and live life, they find instances where some fun things seem iffy in terms of morals, so these *people* make up guidelines and rules and opinions for what Christians should and should not do.

    -These morally-edited *people* then avoid movies that are rated R by more *people*

    So where does God come into all of this? What I see is a bunch of manmade rules and censorships.

  • Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    cheisa, have you ever seen the movie with Gregory Peck about a priest in Rome hiding escaped Allied prisoners, I have a copy of it and really enjoy it, I think it's called, The Scarlet and the Black or something like that.

  • Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    cheisa, I believe Christ's command was that we were to be in the world, but not of the world. That we are to be the light of the world and the salt of the earth and how can we do that unless we are actively being used of God in making a difference in our world. Living our lives in such a way that shows the world the love of Christ and makes others thirsty for what we have, a personal intimate growing relationship with God through His Son, Jesus Christ.

  • Chas »
    Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Well said Chiesa and good point Believer.

  • Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    cheisa, with regard to Christians watching R-rated movies, I can agree with you to a degree. I've seen several movies rated R and I have no clue why except in some because of war violence and I've seen some movies rated PG-13 that I don't understand why they were not rated R. But overall I believe Christians need to avoid R-rated movies not only for there content, but for what it says to other believers and non-believers with regards to our testimony for Christ and especially if one is a Christian parent, what us as a parent says to our children, "do as I say, but not as I do", and at the same time I believe at times there are exceptions to the rule, such as "The Passion Of The Christ" which I believe was R-rated.

  • Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:51 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    You know, this concept of not being of the world is so misused. We are not told by God to disengage from the world, just the evil aspects of it so we can be a part of His Kingdom. Because we are striving for salvation doesn't excuse us from participating in the world God created and placed us in.

    We are commanded by God to be fully engaged with our neighbor at all times in this life, in this world. Tend the sick, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give to strangers, be charitable and compassionate unto others. God knows that we can profit spiritually in the world by doing His work. Work in this world. To disengage from that is to disengage from His Commandments.

  • Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:42 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    I think reasonable adults can watch r rated movies without fear of damaging their souls. Many express redeeming values and are r rated for violence or a brief scene that requires that rating.


    A perfect example is Defiance, the story of brave men who risked their lives in WW2 saving Jews from the Nazis. It was a beautiful film, but as all war films go, was rather violent in parts and there was a brief sex scene. The retelling of this fabulous tale of courage and perseverance in the face of persecution was superb and not to be missed for the scenees that some might find objectionable.

    Valkyrie was another similar film - WW2 genre - that was excellent in portraying moral German officers who confronted the evil that was leading their nation to ruin. They were repelled by the answer to the Jewish question and took action to eiiminate Hitler, risking and losing their own lives in the process of following their consciences..

    Let's face it. Real life is R rated and when we portray events of real life on the screen, sometimes we are forced to glimpse aspects of life we'd prefer to thing don't exist, since they are foreign to us personally. Still, a well made film on a worthwhile topic shouldn't be overlooked because of the rating. I'd like to think my faith will guide me to see the right message from the film, absorb those values and lessons and not be influenced by the less benign aspects of the film.

  • Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:37 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    One thing I have not seen spoken to is not only the importance of our own well being as believers, but our testimony to other believers and non-believers. As Paul says just because somthing is permitted of us doesn't mean we should necessarily do it and in fact if causes a weaker brother or sister in Christ to stumble then we should refrain from it or to me if it gives non-believers a bad impression of Christianity we should refrain from it as well. Plus, if we are parents we need to keep in mind how what we say or do impacts on the lives and development of our children as they watch our lives. For me personally I'm willing to give up those things that may be questionable to some in order to see non-believers come to Christ and younger believers mature in Christ.

  • Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:59 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 14

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Boy, how paternalistic can you get? This guy sounds like a deadbeat dad trying to talk his son out of winding up as big a loser as he is. hide

  • Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:33 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    Aaron.e,
    All I can really say is that I stand in agreement. That was powerful! Thank the LORD for you bruh. May God keep you walking in the path of Righteousness.

    Soli Deo Gloria

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:11 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Bujo and Blacksho,

    I once tried to post a similar comment that got blocked: when you transliterate Greek into English letters, the masculine definite article (omicron with a rough breathing mark) gets blocked for the same reason.... LOL. B-)

  • Chas »
    Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:44 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 5

    Here is a wonderful uplifting short video. It is only two minutes, but is wonderfully done!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs6qZd_xP1w

    Thank you Lord Jesus Christ! One Faith, One Baptism, One Lord and Savior.

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:10 pm Agree: 16   Disagree: 1

    Lord forbid me from ever thinking that I'm strong. So strong that I can handle the idols of the world without being affected. Without being tainted. Lord help me to realize that I am weak, and am easily led to sin. Too weak for TV; too weak for alcohol; too week for the world's idols of entertainment; too week for indulgences...
    Lord let me not be tempted to partake in the things of the world, that my heart would be continuously softened. Lord you are my strength, my shield, and may your strength be made perfect in my weakness. Father let my strength be your strength, and humble me that I may claim nothing for myself. I know that I've never truly, absolutely and whole-heartedly surrendered all to you, but Father, change my heart that it may be so. Lord, please give me repentance. Please change my mind about you, that I may more fully understand your holiness, and that as I am yours, I would do nothing against your holiness through my own thoughts and actions.

    1 Cor. 12:9 - "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

    Heb. 12:28-29 - "Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire."

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:06 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    AMEN Weekenderman!

    Too often the weaker brother card is used as a way of trying to weasel someone to do (or not do) something we just don't like (not unbiblical). True stumbling is the weaker brother sinning against his conscience not being annoyed or uncomfortable.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:29 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    The Lord teaches us to moderate everything except our devotion to God. For alcohol, scripture forbids drunkenness but not partaking. Christ consumed wine and mentioned at the Passover supper that he would not drink it again until his resurrection. I, as a recovering alcoholic cannot drink, but I don't see that it is wrong or sinful for those who can control themselves to drink. Moderation in all things is what is called for. Over indulgence becomes a form of idolatry where the behavior takes on a more important role in our lives than does Jesus.

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:03 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    Christ drank wine, but red wine has medicinal value and health benefits. Today most alcohol products do not. And the rampant availability is dangerous. I drank and used drugs when I was a young man, and I've been sober for about 20 years and can say honestly I'm not missing anything. Alcohol is an addictive drug, and can be that hook Satan uses to destroy you, flirting with it can lead to disaster.

    I'm not opposed to R rated movies, though my wife and I try to pick movies with a redeeming value. And if our choice was poor we talk about what was wrong with the movie from a Biblical perspective as well as what values the movie makers were trying to force on the viewers. Of course we find we are watching far less movies these days.

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:04 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Absolutely, Canadian! Dr. Horton's point, though, is that the primary meaning of sanctification is being set apart for something and Someone--and it is used in that way throughout the Bible. We distort the meaning of sanctification and holiness when we concentrate on the things to avoid instead of our Lord.

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:30 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    Mel,

    Be not of the world is from GOD

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:29 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    boyfan,
    I think what he meant about an overweight/obese pastor preaching against drinking is this, you don't honor the temple of THE HOLY SPIRIT by doing things which damage your body, i.e, drinking,smoking,obesity,drugs,etc. It appears hypocritical when someone who is clearly not honoring their body(which we all know is not your own) to be telling others they should be honoring theirs.

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:01 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "The proper focus of holiness is not on being set apart from something (i.e., the world), but on being set apart for something."

    - Michael Horton

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:38 am Agree: 8   Disagree: 0

    My 2 cents worth,

    GOD tells us study thyself to show thyself approved, and be Holy as I am Holy.

    Before doing anything that may cause you to stumble or be on the wrong path ask yourself some questions:

    Does this glorify GOD?
    Would GOD be honored,praised,by this thing/activity?
    Would this cause a brother/sister to stumble or think this is righteous?
    Could this lead me astray?
    Would JESUS do this?

    All our answers must be honest and given with humility in our hearts.Don't forget some activities will lead you into sin(like porn)don't kid yourself, the enemy wants you to minimize bad judgement and rationalize it away so his bad seeds can be planted,thrive,grow,and bear his evil fruit later.
    We are weak and we can't be strong enough on our own without the power of the HOLY SPIRIT.

    Pray for wisdom and discernment and our LORD is faithful to give it to you to make the right decisions.
    Praise to our LORD and MASTER JESUS CHRIST!!!

  • Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:06 am Agree: 10   Disagree: 3

    He says he has a problem with an overweight pastor preaching against drinking? What? He can't preach against sin because he sins? That's ridiculous. And comparing R rated movies to some sitcoms sounds like a cop out to me. Since I have been saved, just hearing bad language is enough for me not to watch. I'm more than happy watching the edited version on television. Not that I feel like it's a "sin" to watch but because it goes against my new nature I have in Christ. That is the issue. Is it something that you would do or look at if Jesus was seated beside you? If you are saved He is in you, and how can you subject the Holy Lord Jesus Christ to have a part in it?

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