Updated 02:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Society|Wed, Sep. 30 2009 03:14 PM EDT

'Imagine No Religion' Billboards Hit Detroit

By Jennifer Riley|Christian Post Reporter

The first few billboards promoting atheism are up in the Metro-Detroit area with more signs on the way next month, announced the group sponsoring the signs.

In total, seven large billboards reading “Imagine No Religion” or “Praise Darwin: Evolve Beyond Belief” will be erected at locations around the city. The billboard designs feature the phrases written in calligraphy against a stained-glass window background, like those found in churches.

The signs are part of a campaign by Freedom from Religion Foundation, which has placed similar billboards in over 10 states and more than 30 cities. Currently, “Imagine No Religion” billboards are up in Indianapolis and suburban St. Louis. Next month, the group plans a “billboard blitz” in Las Vegas.

In addition to billboards, the foundation currently has 75 large bus displays in San Francisco that read “Imagine No Religion” or Mark Twain’s “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.”

There are another 200 interior signs around the city with quotes by famous nonbelievers such as Richard Dawkins and Butterfly McQueen, who played Prissy in “Gone With the Wind.”

“This is an attempt at balancing the media messages of religion aimed at believers with some percentage aimed at unbelievers,” said Paul Pearson, a member of the Michigan FFRF. “Letting unbelievers and those with healthy skeptical doubt know FFRF exists can give knowledge and comfort.”

A recent report shows that the number of nonreligious Americans, or “nones,” is on the rise. Nones now make up 15 percent of the total adult U.S. population and the statistic is even higher among young people. The percentage of Nones has increased from 8.1 percent of the adult population in 1990 to 15 percent, according to the findings from the American Religious Identification Survey.

Freedom from Religion Foundation reports having a membership of 14,000 atheist and agnostic members across the country, including over 400 in Michigan.

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  • Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:27 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 2

    I'm praying for you too pepper to see the light.

  • Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:49 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 8

    It took me awhile but now I have the explanation.
    The anger, the obsession, the selective use of statistics.
    johnzon is a 9/11 Truther. That explains everything.
    I will pray for you jz.

  • Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:29 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    pepper

    << BTW Hubbert Peak predicted in 1956 that oil production would peak in 1971 in the lower 48..>>

    Dude, even with Prudhoe included,total US production peaked around 1970, see attached graph. Note large gap between production and consumption. There is no way for the US to close that gap unless there is serious energy conservation. If Folks such as yourself would ditch the SUV and other energy hogs, the gap would narrow.

    http://ocho.uwaterloo.ca/~pfieguth/Personal/EnergyLimits/Figures/US_Oil_Production_and_Imports_1920_to_2005.png

    You live in a fantasy world, you want to believe the US can continue to wasting energy and fantastic new oil field discoveries will keep cheap oil flowing. It is true that new fields are discovered, some are rather large, but the vast majority of the worlds oil field's are in decline and new discovies will not made up for that difference. Just as has occurred in the US, new global oil field discoveries are unlikely to keep up with global demand unless serious energy conservation is achieved.

    You are not alone, most Americans do not see the connection to 9-11 and the Iraq wars and oil. 9-11 was a direct result of decades US military presence in ME generally, and at the time of 9-11, in Saudi Arabia specifically. So, as long as the US continues its wasteful energy habits, it will have to continue using its military to protect its oil interests.

    As energy demand from countries such as China grow, conflict over energy will grow. So, keep driving your SUV and pretend mega magical oil fields will be discovered and oil will return to $5 per barrel some day.

  • Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:11 am Agree: 8   Disagree: 12

    jz
    "Good for you, at least US soldiers have not died in vain fighting in Iraq helping to protect oil supplies so that you can drive your SUV."
    Thanks for proving once again that you do not want a real discussion. You are
    just a vicious, bitter guy, always obnoxious.. Must be sad to have nothing better
    in your life then to hang around a Christian website thinking you make a difference. I was using theory in the conjectural sense. Many suv's get
    good gas milage, look it up.
    BTW Hubbert Peak predicted in 1956 that oil production would peak in 1971
    in the lower 48..
    Prudhoe was discovered in 1968 and the pipeline wasn't finished until 1978.
    The peak production was 1988. 1989 the Exxon Valdez ran aground.
    In 1974 Peak predicted global production would peak in 1995. He died in
    1989. Other oil economists have different predictions.
    People like me make it possible for people like you to heat your house and
    run your car. Don't insult our Freedom Fighters that are in Iraq or anywhere else.
    But I do hope and pray that you will accept Christ as your Saviour and Lord.
    He loves you and wants to heal your bitterness and give you peace of mind

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:17 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 5

    pepper

    << God our Creator gave us amazing resources to use wisely. >>

    I'm sure your god would say 12 mpg SUV's is using resources wisely....LOL.

    Dr Pepper, at least you make me laugh.....

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:15 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    "aveteran, considering our Constitution is based much on the Magna Carta and considering the Magna Carta is based much on truths and ideals found in the Word of God, I don't see any problem with either the Bible or our Constitution. But I do see a problem with those who are bent on limiting a Christian's right to their freedom of religion!!"

    How about those who are bent on limiting a NON-Christian's right to freedom of religion? Most of the self-described (in word, not deed) Christians here have no problem with that.

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:13 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 4

    pepper

    << And in the battle of Theory vs. Reality, reality wins. >>

    Hmm, Its really hard to know where to begin with this one. You obviously do not have a science back ground. You do not understand the concept of scientific theories.

    OK, lets start with the internet that you obviously use. One would say it is reality, right? Do you have any clue as to what makes it a reality? Allow me to explain:

    Scientific theories. Yes, theories make the internet a reality. Science is all about theories. Ever hear of the atomic theory of matter, quantum mechanical theory, circuit theory, signal theory? Those theories make the internet, and your cell phone, a reality. Without those theories, there would be no internet, no cell phone, no Game Boy, no microwave oven, no satellite TV, no MRI, no particle accelerators (to kill tumors), etc, etc.

    Ever hear of Einsteins General Theory of Relativity? The theory describes the properties of gravity. Perhaps Einstein should have called it General Reality of Relativity......LOL.


    << .....proves that you live in a bitter world of theory. >>

    Yeap, the internet is bitter, the theory and all..

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:44 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 5

    pepper

    << Actually there is no proof that there is or is not enough oil. >>

    Hmmm, The vast majority of petroleum geologist tell us global world oil production has peaked. Here is a link, named after the guy that predicted accurately US peak oil production:

    http://www.hubbertpeak.com/

    << btw, I like my suv>>

    Good for you, at least US soldiers have not died in vain fighting in Iraq helping to protect oil supplies so that you can drive your SUV.

    << There is plenty of natural gas that is waiting to be drilled and transported.>>

    True, there is a lot of natural gas, but not unlimited. People like you get all giddy about the prospect of using more natural gas as motor fuels, that is until the cost to heat your home doubles and triple, etc, as demand goes up.

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:04 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 7

    btw, I like my suv, it keeps us safer and there is more room to
    drive special needs children and Uncles who need wheelchairs.

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:02 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 9

    jz
    Actually there is no proof that there is or is not enough oil. There are discoveries
    that are not being drilled and oil that has not been discovered. The fact that you
    pepper any discussion statements like:

    "The US could try to adopt the mindless slogan 'drill baby drill' from pretty palin's champaign and there will still not be nearly enough oil to keep American's hungry SUV's rolling." proves that you live in a bitter world of theory.
    And in the battle of Theory vs. Reality, reality wins.
    There is plenty of natural gas that is waiting to be drilled and transported.
    As for character assasination, read your own posts and how you describe
    people you don't even know, not to mention the name calling.
    Any one who accepts the lefts view of Sarah Palin is just repeating
    their lies. I agree with Sarah Palin. Drill Baby Drill. See whats there, it will not hurt anyone.
    God our Creator gave us amazing resources to use wisely. Our God is
    an awesome God.
    http://blog.heritage.org/2008/06/29/the-truth-about-anwr/

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:28 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 8

    aramantha, I have heard that same testimony time and time again from military members who served in Iraq. Having lived in Upstate New York, I'm not a bit surprised you are a rare commodity with regards to being a conservative, although we had probalby more in the Fort Drum area where I was pastoring from 99-06.

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:31 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    DP,

    I'm glad your son is back safe. :) God Bless!

    When my sister was in the Air Force, she had a good friend that was a Democrat (why do they even bother joining the military? jk) that was staunchly opposed to the war in Iraq and fully bought into every lie the media force-fed her about the "poor Iraqis who didn't want the evil Americans there." Guess what? She was deployed to Iraq and realized real quick how incredibly wrong the media was and just how much propoganda was being fed to her. She said she was overwhelmed *every day* by Iraqi women, children and men coming up to her and thanking her for coming to help them. She came back from there completely changed and finally understanding why we went there in the first place.

    Has anyone read That Hideous Strength by C.S. Lewis? There is a quote in there that says (very much paraphrased - emphasis mine), "We do not have to worry about the college educated people who read the papers and watch the news. They believe whatever we tell them to. We have to watch out for the uneducated people who KNOW that ALL OF IT (media) IS PROPOGANDA."

    I don't trust most major news sources. When I research political candidates, I go to the Library of Congress' website and look up their voting record to see where they really stand on issues I care about. That way, the information I obtain is completely unbiased and I know that I am only seeing the cold, hard facts. When I want to know what's happening in Europe, I ask my friends that live there what's going on around them. When I want to know what's going on in the Middle East, I ask the many friends that I have that are stationed there (all over Iraq and Afghanistan) what is going on around them. I have at least 10 friends that are currently stationed elsewhere with the military and at least 10 that have come back from the Middle East. I haven't met a single soldier who has come back from the Middle East that actually thinks that we should never have gone there or that we aren't doing a lot of good there.

    I am in the minority in my web of friends. I am one of the rare conservatives. Most of my friends are liberals and some are ultra-liberal. So, the consensus of this varied group on these matters can be trusted (in my opinion) because all of their views are different and not the same as mine.

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:29 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    DP, I am glad to hear your son mad it back safe and sound.

    j

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:28 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    ipepper


    << Prudoe is just one of the oilfields in Alaska. >

    Yes , very good your are correct, its one field on the Northern Slope, in fact the largest in NA. Most people ID Alaskan oil with PB, thats why I used. Its good that you have decided to comment specifically so a dialog can be achieved rather than engaging in character assassination.

    However, I believe you missed the larger point, the US does not have enough domestic oil to keep up with demand. The North Slope (which includes Prudhoe)peaked in mid to late 1980's which I believe at the time represented about a quarter of US production (noticed I said production, not consumption which would be a lot lower in per cent terms). The percent contribution from the Slope is significantly less today as the fields become depleted.

    The US could try to adopt the mindless slogan 'drill baby drill' from pretty palin's champaign and there will still not be nearly enough oil to keep American's hungry SUV's rolling.

  • Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:46 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 7

    ." For example, as large an amount of oil that has been extracted in the last 30+ years out of Prudhoe Bay has been, total US production has been in serious decline, there just is not enough to tap into in the US to keep up with demand."
    I don't know where you get your info jz.

    Prudoe is just one of the oilfields in Alaska. I have been to the Alpine field, it is
    amazing. Also several Native Alaska Corporations are drilling for oil and producing.
    The misinformaton about Alaska Oil is amazing, especially since the truth is so
    easy to research. Apline has been producing since 2000. All waste is recycled on the site, the technology is amazing. The Oil companies do the
    drilling in the dead of winter down to -60. They only need a gravel bed that
    is removed when they leave. No roads are needed. They make roads at
    the Native Village Elders request. During summer there is water all around and
    tundra. Every month Conoco opens their food storage to the Alaska natives to
    take what they need. There is more oil to find but Clinton killed the oppurtunity
    with ANWR. more about that later. The caribou, geese, bears, eagles etc.
    have thrived in the shadow of the Alyeska pipeline. gotta get some sleep.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:28 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 9

    For those who are keeping track... my son just called to say he made it back to base safely. They sure have made a man out of him!

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:26 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 8

    "Looks like you are finally admitting 9-11 and the Iraq invasion are a direct consequence of US actions to protect its oil interests"

    The terrorism was the final straw. The first time we went in was because an ally had been invaded and asked for our help. Ever since then there was bad blood between Sadam and America. Was oil involved? Yes. Did we just go running in the first time on our own? No. We were asked to defend an ally. Ever since then the relationship between Iraq and the US involved far more than oil.

    The situation in Iraq cannot be simplified down to oil or anything else. It's been a mess for quite some time. I think people try to oversimplify things.

    As a foot note, I heard my son telling someone that 95% of the people in Iraq are VERY glad we are there. 5% are not. (Just fyi, 5% of the people use to rule the other 95%.)

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:26 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 6

    "Looks like you are finally admitting 9-11 and the Iraq invasion are a direct consequence of US actions to protect its oil interests"

    The terrorism was the final straw. The first time we went in was because an ally had been invaded and asked for our help. Ever since then there was bad blood between Sadam and America. Was oil involved? Yes. Did we just go running in the first time on our own? No. We were asked to defend an ally. Ever since then the relationship between Iraq and the US involved far more than oil.

    The situation in Iraq cannot be simplified down to oil or anything else. It's been a mess for quite some time. I think people try to oversimplify things.

    As a foot note, I heard my son telling someone that 95% of the people in Iraq are VERY glad we are there. 5% are not. (Just fyi, 5% of the people use to rule the other 95%.)

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:21 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 8

    "Even if every drop of oil that can be economically extracted in the US, there is not nearly enough oil to satisfy the wasteful habits of Americans."

    First, I want to agree that there isn't enough oil on the planet to satisfy the wasteful habits of America and several other countries on the planet.

    With that said the news was reporting about oil before the election and apparently we have more oil available on our own soil then all the Arab nations have all together. Apparently, we have quite a bit of oil under the gulf that we haven't been able to get at yet.

    Still, I'm all for solar and wind power along with several other things. I'm not a "save the whales left over from the 60s" kind of guy. It's just good economics.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:29 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 5

    hey pepper, you sound like a broken record. Point out specifically where you say I am wrong. I think the problem here is you disagree with my comments and instead of addressing them in an intelligent manner, you prefer character assassination. As Harry Truman once said, if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen..

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:23 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 3

    Hi Rachel, thank you for your post. I have always liked the name Rachel for some reason. Anyway, you asked me:

    "Just out of curiosity, how would you feel if one of your children did become a Christian?"

    I wouldn't have a problem with it in the least. If it made them happy and brought them peace, that would be great. I would hope though they wouldn't become fanatical over it. I raised my kids to respect others and to think for themselves. Whatever religion or belief they choose to adopt would be entirely up to them. For me, I actually tried to be spiritual, a believer or whatever you want to call it. I never could relate to spirituality or religion. Perhaps some of it is due to resentment as I mentioned, but I think mostly I'm just not programmed for it.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:14 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 8

    avet, johnzon needs to prove the misinformation he throws
    out on a Christian website several times a day.
    It doesn't matter to jz what anyone has to say,

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:09 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    DP

    << I'm researching. I did a google with "How much did Clinton cut the CIA?" and got 1,400,00 hits. It may take a while to wade through it all.... >>

    Ah, doing the old pseudo data mining on Google. And here I thought you would have that information at hand without a painful search to try to find some snippet to support your claim.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:06 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    DP

    << the DEMS are the ones who keep us from tapping into our own oil sources which keeps us dependant on the Arab oil.>>

    Even if every drop of oil that can be economically extracted in the US, there is not nearly enough oil to satisfy the wasteful habits of Americans. For example, as large an amount of oil that has been extracted in the last 30+ years out of Prudhoe Bay has been, total US production has been in serious decline, there just is not enough to tap into in the US to keep up with demand. If one were to plot total US oil production as a function of time, say 50 years, the peak was reached in the early 1970's or so (the peak was predicted in 1956 by M K Hubbert). Put into that graph, the amount that might be expect if ANWAR were to be opened up to full scale exploration and eventual production, it would be but a small blip in the total oil production picture.

    Looks like you are finally admitting 9-11 and the Iraq invasion are a direct consequence of US actions to protect its oil interests . I think we are making progress in your education.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:50 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    DP

    << Also, someone mentioned 1953. Please note that Truman (a democrat) was President at the time.... >>

    And your point is??

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:49 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 5

    DDP

    << I was unaware there is a "responsible way" to fight terrorism. >>

    Bush apparently was unaware too. Bush went the irresponsible route- trillions of dollars of added debt and two wars difficult to extricate ourselves from. Had the resources diverted to Iraq been used in Afghanistan, Afghanistan might be a success story today rather than the quagmire it has become. While the US squanders its treasure in two very expensive wars, countries such as China and India are investing in schools, infrastructure and new technology. China grows large capital reserves as it becomes an economic superpower creditor nation at the expense of the US which is forced to borrows enormous sums from the Chinese to finance its deficit spending. The US continues to sink in debt largely due to wasteful military spending and two expensive wars. US infrastructure crumbles and millions of its citizens cannot afford basic healthcare, at least the US has a real nice $ 700,000,000 embassy in Baghdad.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:26 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 7

    aveteran, considering our Constitution is based much on the Magna Carta and considering the Magna Carta is based much on truths and ideals found in the Word of God, I don't see any problem with either the Bible or our Constitution. But I do see a problem with those who are bent on limiting a Christian's right to their freedom of religion!!

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:40 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    "Hey dude, it is not worth the time or effort trying to discuss war or securtiy with a guy stationed at Fort Living Room."

    Then you must have no facts or truth to offer.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:30 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 6

    "He throws around numbers like they were facts and sure seems to hate America."

    The only people I see hating America are the ones who think the Bible takes ANY precedence over the Constitution.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:20 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Believer, dp. I appreciate your thoughts.
    S

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:11 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    "I believe that prior to 9/11 we in America were almost totally blind to the whole matter of terrorism and the terrorist groups such as the IRA"

    I think one step more that we had no common reference. Having lived in the Philippines when I did 9/11 was not as much of a shock to me as it was to my co-workers that day. (I was still working for a printing company then.)

    It's amazing what experience does for understanding. Still, much of the American peoples perspective is media driven. Many people simply believe what the TV says and do what it tells us to do. Have you ever seen "Running Man"? Dawsons character says 'we tell them what to wear, what to eat, what to buy....'

    American's need to get their heads out of their selfishness and look around for themselves....

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:28 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Hi Johnzon,
    You said "Its not that I dont like Chrisitians, I have many christian friends. What I dont like and resent from an early age is being told by too many christians, if I dont believe in jesus, etc, etc, that when I die I will be tortured for an eternity."

    Although that is true, I agree that that should not be the part of Christianity that is forced down peoples throats. I also had the same thing happen to me and I resented Christians for it. Christians need to first tell people about the love of Jesus and help them understand that He wants a relationship with us, before trying to scare people into believing with the threat of hell. I used to hear, "Well if you don't believe in God you are going to hell" that just doesn't get the point across, it didn't for me anyway!

    You also said your children "are now free to decide for themselves what they want to believe without indoctrination early in life."

    I was also raised with no religion in my life, I never went to church and God was never mentioned in my home, so in a way I was like your children, raised to be free to decide what to believe in. Just out of curiosity, how would you feel if one of your children did become a Christian?

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    steveh20, I believe that prior to 9/11 we in America were almost totally blind to the whole matter of terrorism and the terrorist groups such as the IRA and the fact they had ties to American groups or individuals sympathetic to their cause and so little was known or told of that connection. Having lived in Europe from 1979-86, my family and I became very aware of terrorism and all the strange bedfellows that existed among the terrorist groups to include ties to domestic terrorists in America.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:34 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    One more:

    http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/11/232727.shtml

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:31 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    OK...Johnzon...start here:

    https://www.cia.gov/news-information/speeches-testimony/2004/tenet_testimony_04142004.html

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:24 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    "<< Clinton who cut our CIA and FBI by almost 50% >>

    I'm going to have to call you on that one. Lets see the data.. "

    I'm researching. I did a google with "How much did Clinton cut the CIA?" and got 1,400,00 hits. It may take a while to wade through it all.... Care to help?

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:30 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Now, let me throw this out there for discussion on American policy. Most of what is being discussed here is a result of post WW II politics. I think there is a direct link between the decline in our official belief in God and His wisdom with the increased foriegn issues we have been discussing.

    What say you?

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:28 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    "Let me just Clarify, of course I don't mean "all" Americans."

    Agreed. In fact, it is a small segment of Americans at best. The problem comes in that we have so many people here that even 1% is a HUGE amount of people.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:26 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    "The US did not respond to 9-11 in an intelligent and responsible manner. Invaded two countries that the US cannot extricate itself from resulting in the death and injuries of hundreds of thousands of civilians at a cost of who knows how many multiple trillions of dollars."

    I was unaware there is a "responsible way" to fight terrorism. I think the level of responsible ways possible depends on what the enemy allows.

    These terrorists believe that anyone who is not willing to follow their doctrine should be killed. Further more, they believe that anyone who is willing to follow their doctrine should be willing to kill and be killed. Life has no value to them. Quite frankly, given the opportunity they would kill you on the spot. You are of no value and neither am I. They have been being supplied for decades in one form or another by Arab countries and the DEMS are the ones who keep us from tapping into our own oil sources which keeps us dependant on the Arab oil.

    Also, someone mentioned 1953. Please note that Truman (a democrat) was President at the time....

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:28 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    pepper

    << Hey dude, it is not worth the time....>>

    Good cop out, you obviously cant come up with specific errors in my posts. Since you can't, stop the lies and accusations against me. Is not bearing false witness a sin in your religion? You may be angering your god, repent now..

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:20 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Fort Living Room...LOL

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:19 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Hi believer, hope your well.

    Re the IRA.

    How do you feel though that the IRA got a great deals of funds raised in the States? Do you think its ironic that its only when the bombs come to American soil that (and quite rightly obviously, that's no criticism)individual Americans start to take the matter seriously but whilst the bombs go off on the streets of London in thE 70's, 80's. 90's, that appears to be okay?

    Let me just Clarify, of course I don't mean "all" Americans.

    BW

    Steve

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:12 am Agree: 13   Disagree: 17

    Hey dude, it is not worth the time or effort trying to discuss war or securtiy with
    a guy stationed at Fort Living Room.

  • Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:00 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    Ipep, Still waiting for you to show me specifically where I am wrong. Come on dude, just one thing.

  • Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:50 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 6

    One of the best sources for the truth about our soldiers in Iraq and
    Afghanistan, besides the soldiers themselves, is:
    http://www.michaelyon-online.com/
    A brave reporter who sees the war with his own eyes.
    He doesn't live in the google world.

  • Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:40 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    DP

    << Clinton who cut our CIA and FBI by almost 50% >>

    I'm going to have to call you on that one. Lets see the data..

  • Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:20 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    DP your arguments for invading Iraq are a bit like the guy looking under the street light for the keys he dropped. A stranger comes by, asks him what he is looking for, he tells him. The stranger asks where he thinks he lost them and the guy points about a hundred feet from where he is looking. The stranger asks him why he is not looking where he thinks he lost them and the guy says because the light is better under the street light.

    The US did not respond to 9-11 in an intelligent and responsible manner. Invaded two countries that the US cannot extricate itself from resulting in the death and injuries of hundreds of thousands of civilians at a cost of who knows how many multiple trillions of dollars. The 9-11 perpetrators might have spent a million dollars to pull off their attacks, the US has spent trillions in response. Thats trillions of borrowed dollars that will take decades to pay off. bin Laden got a pretty good deal on his investment... If the Iraq war was so important to US security, why didnt bush adopt pay as we go such as increasing gasoline taxes (after all 9-11 is due to US protecting its OIL interests).

  • Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:05 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    Christians or the
    Bible, hang around a Christian website just to be obnoxious.. >>

    Its not that I dont like Chrisitians, I have many christian friends. What I dont like and resent from an early age is being told by too many christians, if I dont believe in jesus, etc, etc, that when I die I will be tortured for an eternity. Fortunately for my children, I protected them from extremist christian wackos that I was surrounded by when I was young. They are now free to decide for themselves what they want to believe without indoctrination early in life. They appear to be fairly well adjusted agnostics.

    PS I visit CP to offer different view points from what one typically sees with the christian-right. I try to bring some balance to the extreme views I see expressed by many here.

  • Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:48 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 7

    "Why didn't bush and cheney recognize invading countries resulting in the death and injury of hundreds of thousands of civilians produces terrorists."

    So, it's OK for terrorists to try to kill hundreds of thousands of people around the world and we should just let them. You have an interesting position.... Not rational but interesting.

    Now, you are saying that Obama is responsible for the countries economic situation then. After all, it's past 9/11 and we're still having problems. Either that or Bush inherited the situation from Clinton who cut our CIA and FBI by almost 50%. I guess it wasn't just his drawers Clinton dropped....

  • Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:43 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 4

    believer


    << ...they hate America and every thing we stand for!! >>

    Such as US supporting and propping up dictatorships to protect its business and oil interests. Perhaps you need a history lesson on what the US did to Iran in 1953. Do a Google search and find out. Let me know what you find out.

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