Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Church|Mon, Nov. 09 2009 07:11 PM EDT

Reformed Church in America Is Imploding, Professor Says

By Audrey Barrick|Christian Post Reporter

The Reformed Church in America ship is sinking, argues one Reformed believer.

"Listen. Do you hear them? Those are the gentle, mournful sounds of a denomination imploding," Donald A. Luidens, professor of sociology at Hope College in Holland, Mich., wrote in an article featured in November's Perspectives. "The denominational craft has carried us far, but its time is up. It has sprung debilitating leaks which can no longer be plugged."

"It was here; it flourished; it ministered; it floundered; and then it was gone ... It is time to look for a new vehicle, or collation of vehicles, to move the church faithfully and compellingly into the twenty-first century."

Luidens makes several arguments – including “ideological messiness," "theological muddiness" and the weakening of polity – supporting his claim.

Amid years of contention between liberals and conservatives over issues such as the civil-rights movement, women's ordination and evangelism with regard to social witness, Luidens says "loyalists" emerged to keep the denomination together. They were more dedicated to denominational survival than to ideological purity, he notes.

Though the two extremes were held together then, today many liberals have left the RCA in significant numbers and conservatives have shifted their target to the loyalists and continue to "rail against 'liberalism,'" he says.

Moreover, Luidens points out from studies of RCA members that many in the Reformed churches have little knowledge of the doctrinal standards of the denomination, including the Heidelberg Catechism, Canons of the Synod of Dort, and Belgic Confession. Though there is a high level of assent to such doctrinal verities as the sovereignty of God, the divinity of Christ and the important of the Bible, the Hope College professor found that there is also a widespread affirmation that personal actions and beliefs are central to determining their eternal fates and that Christianity is not the only route to eternal life.

"What emerges from these data theologically, then, is a generic form of American evangelicalism with a thin Calvinist overlay," he says.

He adds, "'The Bible says' whatever the authoritative speaker wishes, and the biblically illiterate person in the pew has few defenses against outrageous truth claims."

Luidens believes the "highpoint" of theological messiness in the RCA occurred with the 1997 Formula of Agreement. The RCA established a full communion partnership with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the United Church of Christ. Many opposed the UCC partnership because it supported an open and affirming view on homosexuality.

Numerically, membership has continued to decline in the RCA, he notes. "Active communicants" fell from 235,000 at its peak in the mid-1960s to roughly 170,000 today.

Luidens argues that the RCA has relied on "internal growth to feed its membership rosters, with a constant trickle of migrants from the Christian Reformed Church as a supplement." But by relying largely on RCA members having children, "the RCA set itself up for the devastating demographic fact of declining birth rates."

Bradley G. Lewis, professor of Economics at Union College in Schenectady, N.Y., agrees with Luidens on some points but doesn't believe the struggles in the denomination are as fatal as the Holland professor contends. Continue »

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  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Salvage. I understand your hostility. If one never studied the Bible along with Christian history and judged Christ on nothing but His followers and what they teach, Christianity becomes a hateful, murderous, exclusive and prejudice club whose religious texts are contradictory fables. Taken one by one and/or out of context (both scriptural and historical context) the Bible seems to contradict itself and preach of a vengeful and murderous god.

    I realize that many of the Christians who post here are going to disagree with me and call me a heathen (I am gay, after all) however I believe them blinded by their own desire to be ‘special’ and exclusive, following a historically evil empire whose interpretations and rituals ruled the Dark Ages. The message was corrupted and ‘God sent them a great delusion so that they would believe the lie’. Why? Because once again we would take His message sent by His Son and turn again to our own vomit of corruption and turn a message of love and deliverance and mercy into one of fear and hellfire. Sure enough, that is what we did.

    I have read the Bible from cover to cover, in order like a book, three times (KJV). I have done some reading on ancient Jewish culture and how Biblical cities and names related to one another in a historical context. What I believe the Bible says is that Christ brought a message of love and peace as the perfection of human nature in accordance with God. We were told to let God be judge of our souls (therefore telling someone they are ‘going to hell’ or otherwise to be rejected of God is strictly forbidden) and to show unending mercy to everyone around us. Gandhi is a perfect example of leading a Christ-like life and I have no doubt whatsoever that Gandhi resides in Heaven with all who follow God’s command:

    “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.” Romans 2:14,15

    Meaning to love thy neighbor as thyself. Kind-hearted and gentile souls are dear to God’s heart regardless of what they believe and always have been. He created all of us and ‘God so loved the world’ not just a few of the people in it. (John 3:16)

    I find it interesting that atheists deny the very existence of Christ and the Jews acknowledge He existed and was ‘just a crazy man’. I did not know that, I assumed (in my own ignorance of Judaism) that the Jews denied He ever existed. Thank you for sharing that.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    > However, I disagree with the response you were given and I also disagree with some of the viewpoints he expressed.

    What do you disagree with? According to your religion I will be tortured for my crimes,
    Qatonchozeh is quite right, your god is going to abuse me forever along with all the murderers, rapists, liars, thieves, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Pagans and Christian sects that don't fall in line with whatever sect Qatonchozeh is a part of.

    >Are you atheist?

    Yes.

    >You said you were raised as a Jew, was it orthodox or liberal or somewhere in-between?

    It was liberal.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:23 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Salvage. Well, that was quite the exchange. Your first post on this board was an attack, let’s be honest. However, I disagree with the response you were given and I also disagree with some of the viewpoints he expressed.

    I have two questions: Are you atheist? You said you were raised as a Jew, was it orthodox or liberal or somewhere in-between?

    The conversation below exploded into a chaotic attack back and forth. Instead of trying to glean your questions from it I instead offer to answer any question you have if you wish to ask it again.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    > I've learned not to argue with bomb throwing, God hating, devil loving fools.

    Ha! Ha! Yes! I hate your god and love your devil! There is no other possible explanation as to why I don't believe a word of their respective existence! It's all crazy emotion rather than, y'know, giving the subject serious thought and consideration.

    And I'm sure you have answers to all my questions only I'm too in hate with your god to even begin to listen.

    >Why reason/argue with a dead man who can neither see, nor hear?

    Well that would be silly but in this case I am quite alive and I can see and hear, you're just not saying anything new. Why don't you actually answer my questions rather than calling me names?

    >See you on judgement day...

    Ah yes, where your angry sky god will throw me and the majority of humanity into a lake of fire for the heinous crime of not worshiping him. You and only people who think like you will be spared. How lucky you are! It's a bit like winning the lottery isn't it? You were born in the right time and place to the right religion and culture whereas all those poor Hindus, Muslims, atheists, Jews and billions of others were doomed even before they were born.

    Rather a waste isn't it? Your god making all those people for him to have tortured later on? Wonder why he does it?

    Well I wonder, that's like thinking, obviously a pastime you're not very keen on.

    But thank you once again, I appreciate your honesty and I encourage you to tell as many people as you can about your god and what he does to people who don't love him.

    Nothing swells atheist ranks more than the truth about religion!

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I have received your thoughts. I've learned not to argue with bomb throwing, God hating, devil loving fools. Why reason/argue with a dead man who can neither see, nor hear?

    See you on judgement day...

    The last word is yours...

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:41 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    > You are mistaken if you think God loves everyone.

    I don’t think that he loves anyone, your god sounds kinda crazy actually, he is a mass-murderer after all.

    > The Lake of Fire is real, and you aren't getting any younger.

    Finally! An honest Christian, you are a rare breed sir, thank you for saying that, most Christians get rather squeamish about this bit of their dogma.

    Yes, it’s true; because I don’t think your god is real he’s going to torture me forever and ever. Your god, he’s rather insecure isn’t he? He’s also not very sensible, see if he wanted me to believe in him he should have made himself believable. Right now your god and his religion makes so little sense that I have no choice but to think it the stuff of myth.


    >Also, there is no crime to be Jewish, Jesus was a Jew.

    No, I’m afraid there is, see I was raised Jewish and it was made quite clear to me as a child that Jesus was not the messiah, that he was in fact a liar / crazy man. If someone is Jewish they reject your god and the New Testament. Somehow I don’t think that would make your god very happy. But perhaps there is a segregated place in Heaven for the Jews?

    But it is weird that Jesus was a Jew and yet his followers reject so much Jewish law, the laws that Jesus would have held sacred. But I’ve noticed that most religions have a certain amount of… flexibility.

    >As for the Muslim and atheist, yes those ways are a crime against God. It is a rebellion against Him, since those who are worship other gods, and He has commanded against such.

    Yes, that is how I interpreted your god’s laws as well but tell me what about a Muslim child raised in Saudi Arabia? They’re never exposed to your religion, never given the choice to choose Jesus; your god is going to throw them in the Lake of Fire for that? Same thing with some poor Chinese people raised in an environment that is well beyond their control, they will never hear about Jesus and that will doom them for eternity. Does that seem fair to you?


    > Who says we are better off?

    Um me and lots of people.

    >And what measure is being used, and who established that measure?

    Well we live longer, happier lives than ever before. We’ve witnessed real miracles through science; we understand the universe in ways mankind has never dreamt of. We’re better educated, wealthier and all around better off than people were 100, 200, and 2,000 years ago.

    I think common sense establishes the measure, but am I wrong? Do you think we’d be better off living as people were 500 years ago?

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:40 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    >I don't think anything is better off - ever.

    Well of course you don’t you obviously are saving your better days for when you’re dead and in Heaven. Isn’t it odd that your god waits until people are dead before being nice to them?

    > But, apparently, God set them in a slippery place that He might show His wrath upon them and show how EVIL they truly were.

    Yes, by blowing up their city. Say, why doesn’t your god do that sort of thing anymore? In the old days he was wrathing all over the place, nowadays it’s just natural stuff like earthquakes, floods and fires. Hey, could it be that when bad things happened in the old days that people couldn’t explain they decided it was your god who did it? Then they would come up with a justification for it?

    > But God is God and He is the one who determines the rules of life, not the Sodomites, or you.

    Well maybe but here’s the thing, your god has been awfully quiet for the last 2,000 years or so and we’ve gone and established all sorts of rules of life and as a result we have things like America and Democracy, good things. I mean you’ve noticed we don’t have kings anymore right? Well that was a system established by your god and we don’t use it anymore and things have gotten better.

    Weird huh? I guess your god is saving up his wrath for some real horror! You’d think he would have made us to behave as he wants us to, y’now to avoid all that wrath business but he is strange and mysterious!

    Or he just likes hurting people.


    >Then God destroyed them. Now there life isn't so grand.

    Yes but now we have places like San Francisco, Tijuana, Brazil, London, Mecca that are constant offenses to your god and they still stand! So I’m not sure what relevance Sodom and Gomorrah have to the modern world.

    >Repent and believe the gospel is God's COMMAND to you.

    No, I don’t think it is, your god doesn’t talk to me, I don’t think he talks to anyone except crazy people.

    But again, thank you for being honest about your religion; you wouldn’t believe how mushy most Christians are about it. They seem to think of your god as being far more relaxed about stuff… hey… maybe it’s more like people make their god in their image? Like how you seem to be a hard guy, not very forgiving, strict and set in your ways so your god is likewise. Yet other people here are more open minded, not quite so sure and as a result their god is a bit more calm.

    But they’re wrong and you are, of course right.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:58 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    To Salvage, the strangest thing is your error filled post demonstrating a serious lack of understanding of Truth. You are mistaken if you think God loves everyone. He hates all workers of iniquity, including you at this time (since you clearly show yourself not a Christian). I hope you will turn from your rebellion. The Lake of Fire is real, and you aren't getting any younger.

    Also, there is no crime to be Jewish, Jesus was a Jew. As for the Muslim and atheist, yes those ways are a crime against God. It is a rebellion against Him, since those who are worship other gods, and He has commanded against such.

    As to being better off, that is just silly. Who says we are better off? And what measure is being used, and who established that measure? As the scripture says "I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness" and "Better [is] a little with righteousness than great revenues without right."

    I don't think anything is better off - ever. It is the fool that says "What is [the cause] that the former days were better than these? for thou dost not enquire wisely concerning this."

    And I'm am sure that the men of Sodom thought things were wonderful for them. Riches aplenty, well watered land and all the "social justice" they could swallow. But, apparently, God set them in a slippery place that He might show His wrath upon them and show how EVIL they truly were. Taking His blessings and spitting in His Face in their rebellion. But God is God and He is the one who determines the rules of life, not the Sodomites, or you.

    Then God destroyed them. Now there life isn't so grand. So what seemed like things being good, was actually bad for them. The same is for today. Unless you repent you will curse the day you were born and all the goodness you have been given. You will be weeping and grinding your teeth for all eternity.

    Repent and believe the gospel is God's COMMAND to you.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:01 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Ah yes, the Last Days, we've been in the Last Days for about 2,000 years now, any day I'm sure your loving god will get around to destroying the planet with his horsemen and angles of death throwing everyone who doesn't believe as you do into Hell for their crimes of being Jewish, Muslim and atheist.

    At any rate can anyone explain why it is the further away people get from religion the better off they are? I mean compare America now vs. 150 years ago in terms of social justice, quality of life and life expectancy and religious fervor and it's quite startling. The less god the better things are it seems.

    Strange isn't it?

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:39 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    As the Bible also says:

    "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

    2 Tim. 3:1-5

    or

    "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
    But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."

    2 Tim. 4:3-5

    or

    "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasy) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition..."

    2 Thess. 2:3

    or

    "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
    And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
    For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
    Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
    But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

    2 Peter 3:3-10

  • Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:21 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    All religions are imploding in developed nations. As we understand our selves, our world and our universe with science the need for myth and magic to explain it diminishes.

    It's a good thing; as the Bible says; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:58 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Boy, that's almost an appreciable fraction of how many people left the Southern Baptist Convention last year.

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    To read the full essays, from which this article is taken, you should visit the website of Perspectives: A Journal of Reformed Thought, at www.perspectivesjournal.org.

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:59 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    This guy is typical of the intellectually blind.. SOmeone please remind the author that Muhammed's corpse is still rotting in the grave.. so are the remains of every spiritual leader of every other form of spiritual enlightment... except one>>>>> the grave in Jerusalem is still empty despite 2000 yrs of efforts by unbelievers to put Christ back in there.

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:00 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    Let us remind ourselves of the words of 1 Peter 3:15. "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear."

    Wisdom dictates that we engage others in a discussion of the claims of Christ and present unto them the case for Christianity so that they can confront the Jesus of the Bible. Whether they believe or not is not up to us. Our task is to declare and defend the Gospel.

    As the apostle John says: And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:21 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    “It is true that man-made denominations are disintegrating Christianity.”

    I agree, Catholicism being one of them; many churches are in trouble today because they are more concerned with appeasing the culture instead of preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. The solution is repentance and returning to their first love . . .

    “And a Pastor who says "this verse of Scripture, as I understand it..." is merely giving you his/her opinion, nothing more.”

    Yes, I am sure that there are some who merely lean to their own understanding but there are many others who properly exegete God’s Word. I had the opportunity this past weekend to attend the 2009 Apologetics Conference where the theme was: “The Case for Christianity” . . . It was an awesome experience to see and hear the faith once delivered to the saints defended . . .

    “After an unbiased look and reading the writings of the earliest Christians, many have come home to Catholicism.”

    Many have already done this; we have looked at the epistles of the apostles and have received the true biblical gospel . . . We are home in Christ alone!

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:29 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    Jhn 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.

    Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


    Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.


    Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.


    Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

    =====================================================================

    ...just because many can not embrace the sovereignty of GOD doesn't mean they are right...check GOD's WORD...be a berean yourself!

    .... always is divine viewpoint vs human viewpoint....


    God builds His church.....not man. Let us not think that it is up to man to bring people to GOD. Salvation is of the LORD. He will gather all His elect from the four corners of the WORLD and His gospel will be preached for His elect to hear His call.



    2Ch 16:9 "For the eyes of the LORD move to and fro throughout the earth that He may strongly support those whose heart is completely His

  • Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:10 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 6

    He adds, "'The Bible says' whatever the authoritative speaker wishes, and the biblically illiterate person in the pew has few defenses against outrageous truth claims."

    It is true that man-made denominations are disintegrating Christianity.

    When one's ability to influence becomes their ticket to be in authority, instead of the other way around, this is the result. And a Pastor who says "this verse of Scripture, as I understand it..." is merely giving you his/her opinion, nothing more.

    The issue for many people was a desire to know that something was true with certainty, from someone with authority. How can I know with any degree of certainty that this is just not one pastor's opinion, while the one in the church across the street says something completely the opposite? Same Bible, same Holy Spirit, two different answers. After an unbiased look and reading the writings of the earliest Christians, many have come home to Catholicism.

    I pray for all Christians, regardless of denomination. We are one body with one house, one home. John 17:21. Peace.

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