Sunday, November 08, 2009 Last Update:11:25 am ET

World|Tue, Feb. 05 2008 01:54 PM EST

Top 10 Worst Places to Live as a Christian

By Michelle A. Vu|Christian Post Reporter

If you are a Christian, the worst place to live in the world is North Korea, according to Open Doors’ 2008 World Watch List released Monday.

The annual country persecution list ranked North Korea in the No. 1 spot for the sixth year in a row. There were more arrests of Christians in the country in 2007 than in 2006, according to Open Doors.

In North Korea, considered by many the most repressive regime, citizens are strictly banned from worshipping any other gods beside those enforced in the state religion – a personality cult revolving around current dictator Kim Jong Il, and his deceased father, Kim Il Sung.

Moreover, Christianity is considered a serious threat to the regime’s power and there are many reports of Christians being publicly executed, tortured or imprisoned indefinitely simply because of the discovery of their faith.

It is estimated that there are at least 200,000 underground Christians and up to 400,000 to 500,000 believers secretly practicing their faith in North Korea. At least a quarter of the Christians are imprisoned for their faith in political prison camps, from which people rarely get out alive, according to an Open Doors local source.

“It is certainly not a shock that North Korea is No. 1 on the shame list for the sixth year in a row,” said Carl Moeller, President/CEO of Open Doors USA. “There is no other country in the world where Christians are being persecuted in such a horrible and systematic manner.”

In second place behind North Korea is the kingdom of Saudi Arabia where fundamentalist Wahabbi Islam dominates society and oppresses believers. Under the kingdom’s strict interpretation of Islamic law, apostasy (conversion to another religion) is punishable by death if the accused does not recant.

Following close behind in third is Mideast neighbor Iran. Although Christians are officially recognized as a religious minority, believers regularly face discrimination and persecution.

Islam is the predominant religion in six of the top 10 countries: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Maldives, Afghanistan, Yemen and Uzbekistan.

This year, several countries moved up in the list including Bhutan (No. 5, up from No. 7), but mainly due to Somalia and Yemen’s decrease in persecution.

Afghanistan also rose from No. 10 to No. 7 due to the South Korean Christian hostage drama last summer as well as other events that contributed to its worsening persecution status.

Two new countries were added to the 2008 list: Uzbekistan at No. 9, up from No. 11, and China at No. 10, up from No. 12 last year.

Three of the top 10 countries – North Korea, Laos and China – have communist governments. Bhutan is the only Buddhist country on the list.

Improvement in human rights occurred in Somalia (from No. 4 to 12), Vietnam (from No. 8 to 17), Burma (from No. 19 to 25), Ethiopia (from No. 37 to 43) and Colombia (from No. 43 to 50).

The World Watch List ranks countries based on the intensity of persecution Christians face for actively pursuing their faith. The list is compiled based on answers to 50 questions covering various aspects of religious freedom from Open Doors’ indigenous contacts, field workers and persecuted believers.

Open Doors encourages Christians to join its prayer campaign for North Korea and participate in North Korea Freedom Week, April 27 - May 3.

2008 World Watch List

1. North Korea
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Iran
4. Maldives
5. Bhutan
6. Yemen
7. Afghanistan
8. Laos
9. Uzbekistan
10. China

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  • Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:39 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    And while this talk is going on, the public execution still goes on.
    In Saudi Arabia, its done in the city square. Whenever the blue plastic sheets are spread near the city square then the public would now, somebody's head shall roll, blood shall burst like fountain and then the "medic" shall saw the head back on after the prisoner stop moving.

    In North Korea, they do it in front of stadiums just like the Chinese PRC. People would start to say oooh and aaah when the steam rolller started and faintend when the prisoners head goes POP.

    And international world just observe from the sidelines. Talking and discussing and emailing each other. Do I sense FEAR?

  • Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:04 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    Chris,
    Amen! For with God, nothing is impossible.

  • Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Yes Prophet, I do not take people who give intellectually empty arguments much thought. I definitely do not take them seriously. But I try to give others a chance to defend their stances, and in order to do that their stances must be challenged. I also wish that citsonga and others might change their positions, but only they can do that.

  • Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:04 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    Chris,
    I know you don't take citsonga too seriously. Neither do I. A carnal man knows nothing of spiritual things. He makes a mockery of what he doesn't understand. I would expect nothing less. Those who truly seek to know the Truth will find it. Those who mock it will be judged by it.

  • Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:13 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Citsonga,

    First of all, the love I feel is not abstract in any way, no more at least than the way my wife loves me, or the way my friends and parents love me. I see God in my life in more ways than I see them, I talk to God, I hear Him, and I have a relationship with Him. Nothing is abstract. But suppose for some reason I were separated in a "physical" way from my wife for a period of time, and we communicated through letters I would not feel like her love was any less real, or mine for her.

    I have to respond to what you said to Prophet as well, are you trying to tell us that this war in Iraq is primarily based upon Christianity? Is that what you mean by saying "Christian George"? If not then why did you say that, if not then it has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. Please understand, you are mixing two things that are not related. What do you mean by crusades in Iran? Is this what they would be? Did George Bush say that we would fight to make them Christians or get back some holy land? For who knows how many times I say, try again.

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    prophet: "So, the "holy war" that the Christians wage, is a spiritual one, not physical. "

    Perhaps you are not aware of the war in Iraq that christian george started that has resulted in the destruction of a country, the deaths of tens of thousands of its people, death and injury of tens of thousands of US soldiers and the pillage of the US treasury. I hope we dont have another christian george type that will continue with the crusades into Iran.

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:01 pm Agree: 6   Disagree: 2

    Chrisianity is a violent religion. But it's violence is nothing like what you expect.

    Second Corinthians 10:3 says
    "For though I'm in the flesh, I do not war in the flesh. For the weapons I use are not physical, but they are mighty through God to pulling down spiritual strongholds. Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that tries to exalt itself against the knowlege of God."

    So, the "holy war" that the Christians wage, is a spiritual one, not physical. And yes, it is violent. People's souls hang in the balance.

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:42 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    chris:

    "I disagree full heartily with this statement [Love of something you cant see, hear or detect the presence of....seems silly]. I feel and know the love of God better than the love of anyone else I have known."

    Thats good iyou feel the love, I mean that. Its too abstract for me and I cant relate to love of something I cant see, hear, detect and doubt even exists. I love my family and my pets, I see them, I talk to them, I hear them, I can relate to them, they relate to me. I have tried religion, doesn't do much for me, I can't relate to it. I suppose thats why I am an agnostic, I'm content with that..... Have a good day.

  • Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:52 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Citsonga,

    I think you missed my point, it makes absolutely no difference what people twist the Bible to say, it only matters what the Bible says, you are slow to pick this up...

    "Love of something you cant see, hear or detect the presence of....seems silly. "

    I disagree full heartily with this statement. I feel and know the love of God better than the love of anyone else I have known. Of course it makes perfect sense that you would think this because you are not a Christian, but no Christian believes that God is an unfelt unknown force in their life.

    "Well, there sure appears to be a lot of violence in the Bible"

    Sure there is, but as Christians we cannot commit violence in the name of our faith. You have dodged the point. Christ was clear, you are not dealing with OT Jews, you are dealing with Christians. If you compare Christ and Muhammad the contrast on these points is clear, and I will state it again, it is literally impossible to use the Christian faith for a violent purpose, I cannot say the same for the Quran.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    chris: "The teachings of Christianity cannot ever in anyway be taken to this extreme. "

    Well, there sure appears to be a lot of violence in the Bible. Christians tend to be critical of Islam and the Quran with its violent passages. The Bible contains much violence too. I would say they are in very close competition on the violence stuff. Both the Bible and the Quran have been used to justify violent actions against others. Religious texts if not read within their proper textual and historical contexts can be easily distorted and manipulated- this I think this applies to both the Bible and the Quran.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Prophet, I will say it again: It's amazing that people actually believe silly stuff like this.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    chris: "Christianity is a religion based upon love, first the love of God,"

    Love of something you cant see, hear or detect the presence of....seems silly.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    chris: "First, Jews did kill Jesus, not all Jews, but a certain group of Jews from a certain time period. Jesus called for their forgiveness. "

    I think you missed my point. Yes, it is said Jews killed Christ, Christ himself was supposedly jewish. my original point was that some Christians use "the jews killed Jesus" to villifiy the jews. Never mind that it was supposedly part of Gods plan for this to happen, right? Aren't Christians suppose to know this stuff?

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:24 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Christianity is a religion based upon love, first the love of God, then the love towards each other. You cannot decide what Christianity says, you have to play by our rules if you want to criticize something, just like I cannot say that Islam is a religion of violence because of a few terrorists, I have to actually criticize the Quran and Hadiths. If a fake Christian does something, then big deal, the message of Christianity remains exactly the same. As far as the way heaven is, I have no idea what you mean by theocracy? I always thought God would be the supreme leader in heaven, sure theocracies on earth are usually if not always bad, but this isn't earth. I suppose you will want a democracy in heaven? Is democracy the best form of government? (Please tell me you do not actually believe this, I will have to assume you are mad) Maybe communism would be better than God ruling? Anyways, if you want to rule yourself then God lets you, he does not force you to follow Him or to go to heaven. The only thing I could really definitively say about heaven, is that it is far better than earth, and that God will rule there. If you have a problem with either of these concepts, then you do not have to choose them.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:24 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Citsonga,

    First, Jews did kill Jesus, not all Jews, but a certain group of Jews from a certain time period. Jesus called for their forgiveness. This is a non-issue, it is impossible for a Christian to hate someone because they are a Jew, if a so-called Christian says he hates Jews, then he is not a Christian. Suppose you had a belief system that said you had to love everyone, call it the "Agape" society, suppose someone said, "I am a member of Agape society, and I hate Jack" By the "Agape" society's standard, he is not a member. This is Christianity. You can legitimately say that false Christians do any of these things, you cannot logically, rationally, or in any way say an actual Christian did this. If Pat Robertson or whoever else wants to set up death camps in the name of Christ, then they are not Christians, it is really that simple.

    I have argued, and the case can be argued (probably by a 5 year old) that the teachings of the Quran and the Hadith, if taken to the extreme, can be violent and result in "terrorism". The teachings of Christianity cannot ever in anyway be taken to this extreme. You could be an extreme pacifist and be a Christian, but it is literally impossible to be an extreme Christian, and have hatred and violence come out of it. It is as possible for a member of the "Agape" society to take the message "Love everyone" to an extreme and decide to hate someone. You are arguing a nonpoint.

    For that matter, yes Christians say that Muslims are wrong, and yes Muslims say that Christians are wrong. And sure, you say they are both wrong. Big deal? The logical and inevitable conclusion is that only one of these three positions can be right. Absolutely zero (real) Christians use this for a violent motive, many Muslims do (I say many, because it is just true, I do not mean a majority I simply mean many), and the other group can say absolutely anything they want and do anything they want, some kill millions, others kill a few, some kill none.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    To those scientists it is viewed as a myth. To many others, the Bible is viewed as truth. Same with professors, doctors, surgeons, engineers, etc, etc. There are those who believe, and those who don't. So it goes back to your original post where you said "It's amazing that people actually believe silly stuff like this." Yes, they do. And once again, I don't know how you explain that countless brilliant, and intelligent (some far beyond you and me) people believe in the truth of the Bible. So, I wouldn't be so quick to call it "silly" when people far more intelligent believe in it.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    "ou know exactly my point. But you can't ignore the truth. The point of your post wasn't necessarily Adam and Eve...it was the fact that people are dumb enough to believe it. And my point is that doctors, scientists, lawyers, engineers, etc, etc, aren't dumb. They are educated. "

    I work with scientist, the number of those that believe literally in the story of A & E is rare indeed. Its viewed as a myth.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:32 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    chris: "you brought Holocaust or Nazism or whatever you want to say in this discussion "

    I already told you, I did not bring up the subject of the Nazi's. I responded to someone who did. Look for your self for my past posts.

    " Christians who were not representing the actual message of Christianity"

    anti-semitism was/is centuries old in Europe, came way before the Nazis. There were thousands if not millions of people that called themselves christians that made the extermination of the Jews of Europe possible and made it possible for hiltler to carry out the holocaust. Some Christian churches taught that Jews killed Jesus, some still do. This vilified jews in the eyes of many christians.

    "you want to say in this discussion to give some kind of alternative to the Muslim extremism"

    not all musims hold extremist views, not all christians hold extremist views, but some do in both cases. There are muslims that "know" christians are wrong, there are christians the "know" muslims are wrong. For me as an agnostic, i take the position that neither religion is worth following.

    Extremism exits among christians too. If dobson, robertson, falwell had the kind of power hitler had, there would be concentration camps for gays and non-believers today. I hear words of hate coming out of the mouths of christians ( I know, you would say they are really not chritian, they claim they are though) I know personally that I find very frightening directed towards jews, blacks, muslims and homosexuals and non-believers.

    I hear all this business about Christianity a religion of love, but then I'm told if you dont "believe" your going to be tortured for an eternity. Doesn't sound like love to me, I find totally illogical and absurd. The notion of heaven doesn't seem reasonable to me either. From what I can tell based on the views held on these posts , heaven would have to be some sort of theocracy to keep the heavenites in line.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    cistonga,
    You know exactly my point. But you can't ignore the truth. The point of your post wasn't necessarily Adam and Eve...it was the fact that people are dumb enough to believe it. And my point is that doctors, scientists, lawyers, engineers, etc, etc, aren't dumb. They are educated.

    How do I know this? Because I wouldn't have to spell out the point of my post to them...only to you.

  • Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:20 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Again citsonga, you have taken the low road and picked on certain Christians who were not representing the actual message of Christianity, you brought Holocaust or Nazism or whatever you want to say in this discussion to give some kind of alternative to the Muslim extremism, but the example is worthless, I pointed that out, and you didn't answer. Again, I say, try again, or just give up that is often the best thing to do.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    prophet:
    "So, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make."

    What is your point? I think I was posting about the adam and eve myth.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    cistonga
    I know quite a few people from those vocations, and they're not religious either. They're Christians. They are very outspoken about their beliefs. We have successful business owners that witness and invite employees and customers to church on a regular basis. Doctors, firemen, and policemen who teach Sunday school classes, and small group studies on a regular basis.
    Years ago, a friend and I were hit by a drunk driver. Another friend of mine who is a long standing, prominent police officer heard about it over his radio. He came to the hospital to check on us and even took time to pray with me (my friend was seriously injured and in surgery at the time) while he was on duty and in uniform.
    So, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    prophet :''Yeah, it is amazing. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, policeman, firemen, engineers, scientists, surgeons, "

    you know, I know people from all of these groups and I have never heard any of them go about the existence of satan. The ones I know are generally not very religious.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    cistonga,
    Yeah, it is amazing. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, policeman, firemen, engineers, scientists, surgeons, etc, etc. Peope of great minds and intellects believing in this fairytale. Don't be suprised to find your doctor or surgeon is a Christian. But you better ask him first...you know you don't want place your life in the hands of a "kook". If your house is on fire and the fire department shows up, you might want to ask the firman if he's a Christian. If he is, just tell him to go home, because you don't want a crazy man trying to put out your fire.

    It's amazing how much you crow about those lunatics...until your life or your property is in jeopardy. Then it doesn't become an issue, does it? Now THAT amazes me.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    holito8: "Satan is very real "

    yeah right, In your mind .......LOL

    Its amazing people actually believe silly stuff like this.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    In the eternal view, these will be the best places to be a christian. No mega frauds, false brethren, seminary snobs, or TBN.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:13 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Student,

    "dont hate gays? oh my im so sorry i didnt realise telling me i am a sodomite and a sinner and being told i will burn in hell is your way of being nice! my bad. i apologise profusely. " I get such a laugh when people actually scrape the bottome of the proverbial barrel for that one.

    So, Student "Who Thinks", if I see you doing something dangerous and know that you're going to get hurt, maimed, or even killed, would you still say I hate you if i tell you that what you're doing is dangerous and you could be hurt, maimed, or even killed?
    This is no different.
    People often mis-interpret the Bible as a list of do's and don'ts. When its actually a guide on how to not get hurt, or die, and how to have a relationship with a holy, perfect, and sinless God. That's all it is.
    If you want to drive down a dark, twisting, mountain road at 150 mph, that's your choice. But if I know the bridge is out ahead, you better believe I'm gonna do my best to stop you long enough to tell you that you're headed for a world of hurt if you keep going.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I've read this article 3 times! And nowhere does it say anything about my mother-in-law's house! I'm sure she would have ranked in the top ten worst places for a Christian to live.....

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:11 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    chris333 "If you knew that Nazism had nothing to do with the actual message of Christianity, then why did you bring it into this discussion? "

    Actually I didn't bring up Nazism. Someone else did in regard to my comments concerning the participation of some Christians in the Holocaust.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:12 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Citsonga,

    If you knew that Nazism had nothing to do with the actual message of Christianity, then why did you bring it into this discussion? If we are talking about what Christianity and Islam says, then we should not bring an example of their abuse into the discussion. As far as Christians who hate Jews, it is anti-Christian, big deal, there are hypocrites all over the place. If an atheist kills someone, I don't jump the gun and assume all atheists are murderers, or even that atheism begets murderers, at least do the same for us. As far as Christians who "vilify" Muslims, if they are doing it in a way that is not justified by an actual exposition of something the Quran or Hadith says, then they are not acting as Christians, however, if they are rightly pointing out something in these works and show how it causes terrorists, or supression of knowledge, or the abuse of women, then they are fully justified and you should stop criticizing them and start engaging in issues. (I am against demonizing any person, but as far as ideas, we can judge them by what they say). You however have taken the low road and picked on certain "Christians" (who do not represent in even the slightest way the message of Christianity) while leaving the actual message of Christianity uncommented on.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I could really care less what Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson say, if they are not giving a Christian perspective, but trying to put forth some message against Christ's, then they are not Christians. It is a shame that you let them fool you into rejecting the true message of Christianity, I would never reject a worldview because of its abuse, but if you want to, then you are free to do so.

  • Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Satan is very real and he cannot get to God so he goes after God's children!
    Jesus Christ is returning and as the DAY comes closer darkness is being EXPOSED by the Light of Christ!!!
    These rumors of wars, these actual wars, the groanings of creation, such as earthquakes, horrendous storms, all prophetic.
    Open your eyes to see through the Bible, a biblical worldview, and you will see the truth of The Bible coming to pass! This world is passing away! Hallelujah! The King is coming!
    This world is reserved for FIRE and why are Jesus people trying to save this world; PREACH the Gospel, in season and out of season.
    Christians are under Persecution, Christ warned us we would be; but be of good cheer, for HE has overcome this world! Praise be to GOD!

    Anniefourjesus, you have bless me this morning. Amen!!!

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    dont hate gays? oh my im so sorry i didnt realise telling me i am a sodomite and a sinner and being told i will burn in hell is your way of being nice! my bad. i apologise profusely.

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Chris333: "We also do not hate gays."

    Sure could fool me. I remember in the 1990's when Jerry Falwell was peddeling his hate mongering VHS tapes on TV and making a lot of money doing it. The likes of people as Falwell and Robertson really turned me off to Christianity in particular, and religion in general.

    FYI, I am not gay.

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    anniefourjesus: "For those who HEAR the Spirit and can discern the times...these days are EVIL and The Son of God is returning! "

    How long has it been now, about 2000 years where christians have been waiting for the return of the Messiah? I will predict another 2000 years will go by, and no Messiah. I say that, because I doubt that there is such a thing.

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    chris333: "Nazism has nothing at all to do with the message of Christianity"

    I agree with that, I never said they did. what I did say though was that European Christians had a long history of anti-semitism. Hitler was able to use that anti-semitism to facilitate Jewish persecution which lead to the mass extermination of European Jewry. There were churches that vilified the Jews by teaching that it was the Jews that killed the "Savior". I know some Christians today that suggest it. There were plenty of people in Europe during the Holocaust that considered themselves Christain and willingly participated in the mass rounds ups and exterminations of Jews. When I read some of the anti-Muslim posts by Christians, it seems similar to me what the Jews of Europe experienced- persecution.

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:57 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    thearchitecturestudent,

    Christians do not want anyone to die, certainly not someone who has not accepted Christ into their life.

    We also do not hate gays.

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    If the Christian community around the world will stand together and fight for the cause of
    freedom of religion in those worst countries where the belivers are being persecuted, the
    situation can be dramatically reversed. Saudi Arabia spend millions of Dollars to build
    Islamic worship centers in the western countries, but they will not allow any Church or
    Temple to be built there. That is a one way courtesy.

    If we lean on the politicians to have liberty for the persecuted Christians in those countries of
    persecution, nothing will take place. When some department stores act against the will of
    the majority who are standing for certain moral causes, either the stores have backed off or
    they were forced to settle in bankruptcy. At this age of internet, we Christians can do some
    miracles, provided we pray and work together to tell those nations, enough is enough.

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    would have thought the christians would love those islamic countries. after all homosexuality is punishable by death in most of them.

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:22 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I pray that Christians would remember that our enemy is NOT flesh and blood!! We have a very real enemy and it isn't other people!! We are to pray for our enemies and to love them as Christ loved His enemies and even DIED for them!

    Satan is very real and he cannot get to God so he goes after God's children!
    Jesus Christ is returning and as the DAY comes closer darkness is being EXPOSED by the Light of Christ!!!
    These rumors of wars, these actual wars, the groanings of creation, such as earthquakes, horrendous storms, all prophetic.
    Open your eyes to see through the Bible, a biblical worldview, and you will see the truth of The Bible coming to pass! This world is passing away! Hallelujah! The King is coming!

    This world is reserved for FIRE and why are Jesus people trying to save this world; PREACH the Gospel, in season and out of season.

    For those who HEAR the Spirit and can discern the times...these days are EVIL and The Son of God is returning!
    I pray for our leaders and for all nations; that when Jesus comes on the earth, will HE find faith!!!!
    Christians are under Persecution, Christ warned us we would be; but be of good cheer, for HE has overcome this world! Praise be to GOD!

  • Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:23 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Citsonga,

    Your comparison is not fair not is it right, Nazism has nothing at all to do with the message of Christianity, the bridge cannot be logically made in even the smallest manner. Rather it has to do with long standing culture and atheist philosophy. Terrorists take the message of Quran to an extreme, but they are still taking the message of the Quran. Nazis took absolutely no message from the New Testament.

    You will have to come up with a different example if you want to prove that Christianity causes such a thing, just remember, cultural Christianity is not Christianity. You have however, given us a wonderful example of how dangerous atheism can be!

  • Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    He Who Thinks: "Fyi, i agree with you completely, but to say the Nazi's were christians is kinda stretching it. Nazism was a cult embracing Aryan values of racial supremacy. They just confused it with meaning religious supremacy, too. Christians were persecuted by Nazi's too, it's just that takes a back seat to the Holocaust, and rightfully so."

    Yes, I agree with you, the Nazis were not Christians. But there were thousands and thousands of Christians that did participate and make the holocaust possible. Hitler for example did not invent anti-semitism, he exploited anti-semitism that existed in Europe, anti-semitism perpetuated by both Christians and non-Christians for centuries. Of course too, there were both Christian and non-Christians that tried to stop the exterminations of the Jews.

    The point I was trying to make is many Christians demonize all Muslims without taking a critical look at themselves and believing they are superior. As an agnostic, I find the hatred expressed by some Christians towards Muslims very troubling.

  • Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Citsonga " I have seen the evil of some Christians too (Holocaust in Europe against the Jews and the killing of Muslim boys and men by Christian Serbs in the 1990's are two that come to mind), that doesn't mean all Christians are bad, just as the bad acts of some Muslims doesn't make all Muslims bad. How about stopping the Muslim bashing. Christian history has plenty of blood on its hands over the centuries too. Your post suggests that you are just another Christian hate mongerer that attacks those that disagree with your particular ideology."

    Fyi, i agree with you completely, but to say the Nazi's were christians is kinda stretching it. Nazism was a cult embracing Aryan values of racial supremacy. They just confused it with meaning religious supremacy, too. Christians were persecuted by Nazi's too, it's just that takes a back seat to the Holocaust, and rightfully so.

  • Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    overseer-

    please, please, please, i beg you, stop posting. You're digging yourself a hole that even God won't be able to get you out of.

  • Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:31 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    john14-6: "But this does go to show just how repressive and evil Islam is. Islam is of the devil. It stifles all creativity, free will, reason, knowledge, intellectual curiosity, etc, and turns men's hearts to evil and against their brothers. Islam is the devil's ploy to counter Christianity. And the devil has ensnared the souls of some 1.2 billion human beings under this monstrous and wicked faith. Please pray for the lost souls of all these Muslims. They are ensnared by a powerful and inhuman ideology and they need our prayers for their deliverance from the evil of Islam. Pray that the darkness will be overcome by the light."

    I have seen the evil of some Christians too (Holocaust in Europe against the Jews and the killing of Muslim boys and men by Christian Serbs in the 1990's are two that come to mind), that doesn't mean all Christians are bad, just as the bad acts of some Muslims doesn't make all Muslims bad. How about stopping the Muslim bashing. Christian history has plenty of blood on its hands over the centuries too. Your post suggests that you are just another Christian hate mongerer that attacks those that disagree with your particular ideology.

  • Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    HyperionOverseer. Pay particular attention to Agentorange post of Wed Feb 06 directed to you. His post is on the mark, you should try to learn something from it.

  • Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    HyperionOverseer:
    "and to make this relevant, keep in mind that this is God vs Satan, Christianity vs Islam, Light vs Darkness, this is how it will be until the darkness is defeated utterly and completely."


    Dude, you are the one with the darkness- the darkness of ignorance. please tell me you are locked up in an institution and not actually walking around, because you are really scary.

  • Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    HyperionOverseer "we'd be #1 in persecution of christians without equal that is once scientology gets sufficient reason to attack christians. and from what i can tell, it wont be for a while, but it just might occur."

    May I suggest you suffer paranonia with a twist of persecution complex. I believe there are medications available that might help you.

  • Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    HyperionOverseer "still attacking Bush and without any shred of proof are we?"

    Business relationships have existed between the Saudi Royal Family and the bush family for decades. There is much evidence for today's terrorists movements and wars that have sprung up that were laid more than 30 years ago with a series of business deals between the ruling Saudis and the powerful Bush family. The Saudis received investments and military protection in exchange for cooperation on very lucrative oil deals. There have been decades of a shady alliances between various members of the Bush family the Saudi Royal family members. The Bush family has been very closely tied to Saudi Arabia that harbors and supports the very terrorist groups the US claims to be its enemy.

    May I suggest you pull your head out of the bible for a day and learn about the real world, Start with a study of the bush family and the Carlyle Group and Saudi Arabia connections

  • Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:52 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    HyperionOverseer,

    ”and what is wrong with what we are selling? SA is not a threat to us, look at how they benefit from our continuous patronage buying their oil.”

    Wow, are you naïve? We sell them arms which they use against others, and us indirectly and the $$ we send over for oil is indirectly financing terrorist regimes in the Kingdom of Saud and beyond. 15 of 19 9-11 hijackers were SAUDI nationals, think about it.

    And at our current rates opening ANWR in Alaska isn’t a silver bullet to our woes nor is offshore drilling. We can’t drill ourselves out of it. We need to get off oil entirely and quit funneling $$ towards those that would seek to destroy us. Become energy independent and then we can tell our drug dealers OPEC to change their habits, until then you’ll see more presidential hand holding sessions.

    SA (like virtually all ME counties) don’t create jobs, social systems for the populace, instead the royal elite hog the $$ all for themselves and don’t distribute the wealth amongst their populace. They’re just like old feudal systems of Europe that consolidated wealth in a few families and subjugated the ignorant masses.

    “So, are you going to blame us for the war? Or are you going to start blaming those who keep attacking us?”

    Iraq had 0 to do with 9-11 attacks. The lacking credibility of intel from ‘curveball’ that was sold to the people was never enough to invade Iraq over, but we did it anyway. Bush will go down as among the worst presidents ever. He went from a national debt of just over 4 trillion to now over 9.2 trillion and will be 10 when it's all said and done.

    ”and to make this relevant, keep in mind that this is God vs Satan, Christianity vs Islam, Light vs Darkness, this is how it will be until the darkness is defeated utterly and completely.”

    Those that use their religion as an excuse for such acts must be marginalized, but it makes it much harder to do so when you indirectly fund and arm them. We’re literally fighting both sides of this war. And our work in Afghanistan was nice, but we let them grow back ALL their opium fields which they also use to fund terrorism.

    ”and the US would rank #1 with a HUGE lead once scientology begins waging war against christianity, which is likely seeing as how they despise anyone not under their mind control.”

    US # 1 in what exactly? what do we rank globally # 1 in?
    ya, xtians have never persicuted anyone ever right....talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

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