Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Education|Wed, Feb. 13 2008 03:35 PM EST

Apologists Ask Churches to Step Up Response to Militant Atheism

By Katherine T. Phan|Christian Post Reporter

As more atheist-centered books and movies make their way to mainstream culture, two best-selling Christian apologists are encouraging churches to better equip their congregation to respond to what they call a more outspoken and "confident" atheism.

"The arguments are not really new but the ferociousness" with which atheists are lobbing their attacks "are coming much stronger," Mark Mittelberg, primary author of Becoming a Contagious Christian, said in a teleconference on Tuesday.

The teleconference, hosted by Outreach Training, was for pastors who were interested in updating their churches' apologetics approaches amid an onslaught of pro-atheist books and movies in recent years. Books like Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion and Christopher Hitchens' God is Not Great have made best-selling lists. Meanwhile, movies like The Da Vinci Code, The Jesus Family Tomb and The Golden Compass have claimed widespread media attention.

These books and movies are not just posing challenges to the basic tenets of the Christian faith, according to Mittelberg, but they are also empowering attacks against Christianity.

Lee Strobel, author of the best-selling The Case for Christ, agreed with Mittelberg that many Christians are raised to believe in doctrine but are not adequately taught on why their faith is true or how to support their faith with evidence.

"Churches need to help them reach out to their friends, colleagues and family members with the good news of Christ" using data that supports the good news as true, said Strobel, a former atheist.

The two apologists recommended that pastors become familiar with both books by atheist authors and those by Christian apologists.

Mittelberg said pastors can identify "key sharp lay leaders" within the local church to help them do further apologetics research or become the starting point for an apologetics ministry.

"There are people who love this," said Mittelberg. "If you can identify these people, you can build a ministry around them."

Another suggestion was for churches to organize a panel discussion on hot button topics in Christianity such the resurrection and divinity of Jesus. Churches would invite professors and experts from opposing sides to debate selected topics in Christianity or field questions from the audience.

"A lot of Christians assume they are hanging on to a shred of faith – that they are clinging by their fingernails. They don't know that the truth is on our side," noted Mittelberg.

For churches with more limited resources, Strobel recommended subscribing to a satellite feed that would stream live broadcasts of his seminars straight to the church. His next scheduled one-day live training seminar, "Investigating Faith," will be held on March 8 at Word Evangelical Presbyterian Church in Northville, Mich. Churches will be able to view the presentation in real time through Church Communication Network.

Strobel also asked pastors to consider setting up seeker small groups. While Strobel's small group curriculum won't be available until this Fall, he recommended Garry Poole's Seeker Small Groups as a resource.

"There are great answers to these challenges," said Mittelberg. "We just got to do our homework.”

Sort by: Newest | Oldest | Agree | Disagree
All comments on this page are subject to our Terms of Use and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Christian Post or its staff.
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12
  • Sat May 30, 2009 7:23 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show All the science, research and discoveries of evolution and the processes that surround it may not be completed, YET. That is still not a good reason to resort to 4th century interpretations of Bronze Age superstitions to find answers. Atheists are growing, worldwide, in numbers. The relevance of following ancient mythology as a life-guide no longer is applicable in a 21st century world. As a Nation it is time to grow up and stop believing in Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Holy Ghost. hide

  • Tue May 26, 2009 1:20 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    You mean we're going to actually have to do some thinking and reasoning in the Church now??? Not ugh...

    I don't know about anyone else, but the only reason I go to church is for the upbeat music and the "sensitive" message. It really helps me get through another week of sin. Did I say "sin"? I meant naughtiness. (Wouldn't want to get too "theological"; people won't "get" me. Gotta keep it "real" ya know?)

    But now, if I have to start "thinking" at church that will be just too exhausting. Can't somebody else do the thinking for me?

    Other people's thinking has worked so well for the Church since the days of Spurgeon and Wesley; why change now?

    Thinking will only complicate my 5 year "faith plan".

    Couldn't we all just watch TBN (Temptresses, Buffoons (&) Nincompoops) and parrot what we see on there?

    I haaaaate reading my Bible. It is soooooo "1st century". What a holy drag...

  • Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:30 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    To agentorange20 re: stars

    "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and a kings to seek it out." Proverbs 25:2

    What eternal significance does the details of stars have? If the Bible described in detail the reason for & process of how they were formed....many would still choose to not-believe. JMO, but when the Bible is silent on a matter I believe that God gives us the joy to find out ourselves.

  • Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    agentorange

    You will never find what you are looking for in life until you find Jesus.

  • Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:51 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    The Bible is not a science book. However, the science mentioned in it is accurate. The Bible got it right long before mankind ever did.

  • Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:46 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    Star,

    "Statements Consistent With Astronomy"

    No offense, but you need to learn to think a little more critically.

    Star, the bibles mentioning of stars is nothing of importance, for all it tells us is something that is quite obviuos - that they indeed plentiful. Wow, big woop. we would know that regardless if the bible pointed it out, which means the bible pointing it out doesn't mean it's refering to hidden science secrets, rather it is refering to the obvoius....which is quite pathetic.

    The bible doesn't describe the details on stars. It doesn't explain how they form, why they shine, what sort of processes do they undergo and what types of energy is emitted from them ,etc. The bible is absent in this regard, but was able to make the obvious distinction claim that indeed 'there are lots of them', which really is pointless. Saying there are lots of stars answers nothing, it returns nothing. It's like stating water is wet. It's not a science revelation,. If the bible had the processes of how stars worked, I'd be impressed as this would be geniune knowlede no one at that time could have possibly known and it would givem some cred to your bible, howerver it doesn't so it has no authority in the matter.

  • Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:50 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    From Indonesia,

    Jakarta- 5 October 1965, the day of the dead generals funeral procession, a military propaganda campaign began to sweep the country. Both Indonesian and internationals saw that it was an atheist communist coup, and that the murders were cowardly atrocities against Indonesian heroes. PKI denials of involvement had little effect. The atheist communist party and its alleged front groups were banned. Indonesian army, acting on orders by Suharto began a campaign of agitation and incitement to violence among Indonesian civilians aimed not only at atheist communists but the ethnic Chinese community and toward President Sukarno himself. Leading PKI members were immediately arrested, some summarily executed.

    The anti atheist communist purge quickly spread from Jakarta to the rest of the country, the worst massacres of known, suspected, and simply alleged atheist communists, were in Java and Bali where PKI support was at its strongest. The situation varied across the country, in some areas the army organized civilian groups and local militias, in other areas communal vigilante action preceded the army. For many youths, killing atheist communists became a religious duty. Muslims in Java and Sumatra but also Christians and Catholic students in the Yogyakarta region and Hindus in Bali took part in the massacres. Though most suspects were identified by locals, the CIA supplied the Indonesian military with lists of suspected atheist communists.

    Between 300,000 and one million atheist communist were killed in the mass killings following the arrest of PKI members in Sukarno cabinet on October 6, 1965. Ironically, a CIA study of the events in Indonesia assessed that in terms of the numbers killed, the anti PKI massacres in Indonesia rank as one of the worst mass murders of the 20th century. Many others were also imprisoned and for the next ten years people were still being imprisoned as suspects. It is thought that as many as 1.5 million was imprisoned at one stage or another.

    Indonesian today are still on the look out for more atheist communist to kill.

  • Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Here are some of the science facts in the Bible,

    Taken from www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

    Part 1:

    Statements Consistent With Astronomy

    The Bible frequently refers to the great number of stars in the heavens. Here are two examples.

    Genesis 22:17

    That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies.

    Jeremiah 33:22

    “As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant and the Levites who minister to Me.”

    The Bible also says that each star is unique.

    1 Corinthians 15:41

    There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.

    All stars look alike to the naked eye. Even when seen through a telescope, they seem to be just points of light. However, analysis of their light spectra reveals that each is unique and different from all others.

    The Bible describes the suspension of the Earth in space.

    Job 26:7

    He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.

  • Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:11 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Here are some of the science facts in the Bible,

    Taken from www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

    Part 2

    Statements Consistent With Meteorology

    The Bible describes the circulation of the atmosphere.

    Ecclesiastes 1:6

    The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.


    The Bible includes some principles of fluid dynamics.


    Job 28:25

    To make the weight for the wind, And he weigheth the waters by measure.

    The fact that air has weight was proven scientifically only about 300 years ago. The relative weights of air and water are needed for the efficient functioning of the world’s hydrologic cycle, which in turn sustains life on the earth.

  • Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Here are some of the science facts in the Bible,

    Taken from www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

    Part 3

    Statements of Biological Health

    It is a proven fact that a person’s mental and spiritual health is strongly correlated with physical health. The Bible revealed this to us with these statements (and others) written by King Solomon about 950 BC.

    Proverbs 12:4

    An virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.

    Proverbs 14:30

    A sound heart is life of the body: but envy the rottenness of the bones.

    Proverbs 15:30

    The light of the eyes rejoiceth the heart, and a good report maketh the bones fat.

    Proverbs 16:24

    Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, Sweet to the soul and health to the bones.

    Proverbs 17:22

    A merry heart doeth good, like medicine, But a broken spirit drieth the bones.

  • Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    citsogna

    Here are some of the science facts in the Bible,

    Taken from www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

    Part 4

    Statements Consistent With Anthropology

    We have cave paintings and other evidence that people inhabited caves. The Bible also describes cave men.

    Job 30:5,6

    5 They were driven forth among men, (they cried after them as after a thief;)

    6 To dwell in the cliffs of the valley, in caves of the earth, and in the rocks.

    Note that these were not ape-men, but descendants of those who scattered from Babel. They were driven from the community by those tribes who competed successfully for the more desirable regions of the earth.

  • Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Here are some of the science facts in the Bible:

    Taken from www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

    Part 5

    Statements Consistent With Hydrology

    The bible includes reasonably complete descriptions of the hydrologic cycle.

    Psalm 135:7

    He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth; He makes lightning for the rain;
    He brings the wind out of His treasuries.

    Jeremiah 10:13

    When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, bringeth forth the wind out of His treasuries.

    In these verses you can see several phases of the hydrologic cycle—the worldwide processes of evaporation, translation aloft by atmospheric circulation, condensation with electrical discharges, and precipitation.

    Job 36:27-29

    27 For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof:

    28 Which the clouds drop and distil upon man abundantly.

    29 Also can any understand the spreading of clouds, or the noise of his tabernacle?

    This simple verse has remarkable scientific insight. The drops of water which eventually pour down as rain first become vapor and then condense to tiny liquid water droplets in the clouds. These finally coalesce into drops large enough to overcome the updrafts that suspend them in the air.

    The Bible describes the recirculation of water.

    Ecclesiastes 1:7

    All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

    The Bible refers to the surprising amount of water that can be held as condensation in clouds.

    Job 26:8

    He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.

  • Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I just wonder what dark matter looks like, for it to cause what it does.

  • Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    Let's meet tomorrow sometime. Let me know when you think you can be here. If you for some reason can't meet tomorrow, then let me know when. I want to talk about cosmology, if that would be OK with you.

  • Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet

    agentorange knows what he is talking about in regard to dark matter and dark energy. Go to this NASA link and read about irt: http://hubblesite.org/

  • Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    sorry orange. I thought that I had told you about what happened to my family. I've posted it on so many threads that I forget who's seen it.
    My wife was chronic depressive/suicidal. She was on prozac which didn't help. God healed her instantaneously.
    She was also told she'd never be able to have kids. We have two wonderful children.
    My daughter was born with ASD (a hole between the chambers of her heart), doctors said the only option was open heart surgery. God healed her instead.
    My son had ADHD, and doctors said he would be on meds his whole life, and would struggle to make it through school. He was held back in first grade because of it. God healed him, and has been off his meds for years now. He's in 8th grade and has been on the honor roll for almost the entire 2 years.
    That's my evidence.

  • Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    I did give you evidence. But you flatly rejected it. You have no interest in the truth.

    The power of God is incorporated to explain why people are miraculously healed and delivered. There must be something there, its called indirect observation.
    See how silly that sounds? Almost as silly as dark matter.
    And yet, God still heals...whether you believe in Him. His existence doesn't rely on your belief (or lack thereof). He existed before you were born, and He will exist after you die.

  • Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:26 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "LOL, now who's believing in fairytales. Instantaneous healing is not a placebo. No matter how you try to explain it away, you can't hide the truth."

    Why don't you support it with actualy evidence, then we will see.

    "Dark matter is merely science's attempt to explain a phenomena that they can't explain."

    No, they incorporate dark matter to explain why galaxies are spinning at their speed and haven't flung apart yet, thus something must be there and this is called indirect observation, the same type of indirect observation that is used to identify atoms in particle physics. go read a book on dark matter and quit displaying your flat earther views.

  • Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:32 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    DARWINISM and ATHEISM: UNSCIENTIFIC & MYTHICAL

    http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com

  • Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    I will be back tomorrow.

  • Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:30 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Dark matter is merely science's attempt to explain a phenomena that they can't explain.

  • Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:29 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Orange,
    LOL, now who's believing in fairytales. Instantaneous healing is not a placebo. No matter how you try to explain it away, you can't hide the truth.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Yep. And it's that faith and logic that healed my wife, daughter, and son...when science was at a loss."

    It appears you've never heard of the placebo affect either than hmmm? okay...

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Kinda like dark matter,eh."

    No, not really. We can indirectly observe dark matter just like we can indirectly observe atoms. We've never directly observed either, yet you'd feel quite foolish saying it takes faith to believe in atomic theory right? Same goes for dark matter.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    orange,
    "no ryme, no reason, no matter, just have faith in the super natural. nice logic." Yep. And it's that faith and logic that healed my wife, daughter, and son...when science was at a loss.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Kinda like dark matter,eh.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,

    You rely on the supernatural b/c that's all you have to explain it away. no ryme, no reason, no matter, just have faith in the super natural. nice logic.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Orange takes the supernatural out of the equation. The flood was, afterall, a supernatural event. And people lived hundreds and hundreds of years back then. And people had more children back then too. And orange's opinion on the infant mortality rate of the time is just that. Opinion. It is not beyond God's ability to replenish the earth from 6 people in a thousand years.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    I need to go. I will talk some more with you tomorrow evening.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    Re: He just assumed all couples would all have 8 kids and they'd all surivve to reproduction age, but that too isn't conservative at all as most kids used to die in their first few years of life from diseases, malnutrition and so on.

    God allowed rapid population growth in the beginning in order to quickly repopulate the earth.

    Genesis 9:1

    "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."

    Genesis 9:7

    And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein."

    Re:Re:Famines occur which limit population growth and population limit, something he toally ignored.

    Again I said earlier, "If the population continued to increase in the manner mentioned above, then we would have a much larger population today than we have. War, famine, natural disaters, diseases, etc contibutes to keeping the population growth down.

    God changes things as they need to be changed.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Right, he only addressed the first 1000 years, while ignoring that sort of growth rate is un heard of even now. He just makes it up with not evidence at all to back it. Famines occur which limit population growth and population limit, something he toally ignored. He just assumed all couples would all have 8 kids and they'd all surivve to reproduction age, but that too isn't conservative at all as most kids used to die in their first few years of life from diseases, malnutrition and so on.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    Get real again.He was only addressing the first 1000 year period after the flood. All your objections are invalid.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    star2,

    You can't honestly take the bible seriously with respect to science, can you? It might say god created all these things, but that is mere hearsay.I mean think of how many times it's been utterly wrong with regards to science accuracy. That alone tells you who wrote it and how utterly ignorant sand nomands were so long ago.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    Get real.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    star, remember how you used a very, very concervative annual growth rate of .5% going from the 6 to 6 billion over said years? Well, if you'd paid attention Prophet's figures are no where NEAR that figure.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    star2,

    Hello, earth to star, his figures only accounted for the 2 million jews and didn't account for the rest of the world which would have certainly been larger.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    Re:For arguements sake, let say you god poofed the first life forms of bacteria here 3.85 billion years ago just like the records show.

    No record shows that the first life forms of bacteria were either poofed here by god or was brought here by a comet, an intelligent alien or any other method.

    God Word, which is His record, says He created the heavens and the earth. He created everything in a short span of time. He created each life form (plant and animal) after its own kind and in its mature state. He created light, He created darkness. He created our moon and our sun. He created the stars, the galaxies, the dark matter and everything we observe in the universe. God is the creator of all things.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    Part 1

    Re: Population Growth

    Again you misunderstood the intent of my approach to proving that it is possible for 6 people (3 couples) repopulating the Earth in approximately 4344 yrs with an average annual growth rate that took into consideration famine, wars, natural diasters, etc.. The approach never intended to show what populations would be at different intervals of time. Average annual growth rate is just what its name implies; average. You know that average doesn't mean actual. Some time periods are going to be greater than the average and some will be less, and some will be close to the actual average number used. Again, the approach was used only to show that it was possible; nothing more and nothing less.

    To try to prove me wrong using my approach is nothing but a smokescreen to cover the fact that you are wrong that 8 people cannot repopulate the earth nearly 4344 yrs ago.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    Part 2

    Prophet showed how it was possbile to have a large population growth from the 3 couples God used to repopulate the earth after the flood. The numbers are reasonable and addresses your concern about the nearly 2 millions Jews that left Egypt in the exodus.

    Here is his posting:

    I know that the only way you will think my numbers are realistic is if they agree with you, but here you go:

    Okay. 3 couples, 6 people, at 100 years of age, average lifespan 300 years, average birth rate 3male/3female, generation is 100 years. The original 3 couples give birth to 2nd generation at 15 years (since Noahs sons probably started procreating immediately after the flood)

    15 years: 6 people (3 couples) with 18 offspring=24 population
    100 years: 6 people 1st generation
    18 2nd generation (9 couples) with 54 offspring=78 population
    200 years 1st generation dies off
    18 2nd generation
    54 3rd generation (27 couples) with 162 offspring=234 population
    300 years 2nd generation dies
    54 3rd
    162 4th generation (81 couples) with 486offspring=702 population
    400 years 3rd generation dies
    162 4th
    486 5th generation (243 couples) with 1458 offspring=2106 pop
    500 years 4th gen dies
    486 5th
    1458 6th gen (729 couples) with 4374 offspring=6318 pop
    600 years 5th gen dies
    1458 6th
    4374 7th gen (2187 couples) with 13,122 offspring=18,954 pop
    700 years 6th gen dies
    4374 7th
    13,122 8th gen (6561 couples) with 39,366 offspring=56,862 pop
    800 years 7th gen dies
    13,122 8th
    39,366 9th gen (19,683 couple) with 118,098 offspring=170,586 pop
    900 years 8th gen dies
    39,366 9th
    118,098 10th gen (59,059 couples) with 354,294 offspring=511758 pop
    1000 years 9th gen dies
    118,098 10th
    354,294 11th gen (177,147 couples) with 1,062,882 offspring=1,535,274 pop

    Lifespan, number of children per family are very consistent with the numbers given in the Bible...acutally probably a little too conservative.

    If the population continued to increase in the manner mentioned above, then we would have a muvh larger population today than we have. War, famine, natural disaters, diseases, etc contibutes to keeping the population growth down.


    You have no real argument to disprove the Bible. You are nothing more than empty talk.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    star2,

    For arguements sake, let say you god poofed the first life forms of bacteria here 3.85 billion years ago just like the records show. Now that we've settled that what evolved to what and how is what evolution attempts to understand and that's all we should be talking about in the first place.

    What is mathimatically impossible about life forming under certain chemical bonds? Did you even bother to read what I replied to Chris with? Had you, you see molecules dont work according to pure randomness, but rather work according to the 4 known fundimental forces. This is something even Hoyle didn't account for.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    I am sorry; it is a waste of time to even consider the 'evolution of life' when it is mathematically impossible for life to have ever came into existence to begin with.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    star2,

    Well, instead of bouncing around, why don't you actually address Evolution (change over time) instead of going after Abiogensis (how life arose) which doesn't negate evolution occuring in the first place. You're the one that can't differentiate between the two, I don't need to mention as you looking foolish.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    You are foolish.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    “How life began is important to evolution. If it cannot begin in the first place then it can never develop. You need to face that reality.”

    Star, these are different realms of Science, and evolution deals with the process of living stuff, while abgiogenesis deals with the non living stuff becoming livings stuff. How does the methods by which life got here in any way negate evolution occurring? Easy, they don’t. Your god could have just as easily poofed life here and yet we’d still be here talking about evolution aka life changing over time. HOW life got started doesn’t negate what occurs after life exists….I don’t know how you can’t comprehend this.

    Star, do the methods (planes, trains, automobile, boat, etc.) by which a musical band gets to a concert impact if they play their music later? No, they don’t, any of the means of transportation would suffice and none would negate their music playing once at the hall. And neither do the methods by which how life arose negate what happens latter once it exists.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    Re: abiogenesis and evolution

    How life began is important to evolution. If it cannot begin in the first place then it can never develop. You need to face that reality.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    “Macro evolution has never been observed in nature nor in the lab. What scientists have observed is micro evolution. Scientists have never seen in the lab one species transform or cross the species level barrier. “

    Note to star, macro evolution is denoted as evolution AT OR ABOVE the species level barrier. If you want countless examples of this just Google ‘observed speciation’. Remember some weeks ago when I held your hand and pointed out those 30 + recorded instances of macroevolution?

    www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
    www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

    “If a significant mutation occured that would cause, if it were even possible and it is not, a species to cross over the species level barrier, that mutation would kill the species specimen (new life form).”

    Hey star, mutations do occur, and if they are too much of a change they generally kill the host species spot on as its under meiosis so the species wouldn’t even be born in the first place. However, mutations (deletions, translocations, inversions, duplications, and FUSIONS) have been observed in the lab and the species under these can be born and show no ill affects.

    “Mutations (malfunctions) don't make a product new and better, it weakens it.”

    Not really. The DNA copying and duplication process although impressive is hardly perfect, these inperfections are mutations. The vast majority of generational mutations are neutral; while around 1% are harmful and about .28% are beneficial, at least in our species. Why do you think only certain segments of our human population have lactose tolerance to consume milk, while most don't? Here’s a hint…’herding cattle in the past’. All that from a simple gene mutation, that we can identify in our genomes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance

    Here’s another mutation in our species that wasn’t harmful at all.
    www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm

    Assuming you’re White, your skin too is the result of a gene mutation. Male pattern baldness, freckles, and so on are regular genetic mutations that weren’t harmful at all

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    “God created dark matter and he created light.
    Isaiah 45:7
    "I form light, and create darkness: I make peace and CREATE EVIL: I the Lord do all these things."

    Way to twist the words out of context star, I wasn’t born yesterday. That verse is regarding dualism, such as principles of good and evil symbolized as ‘light vs dark’ and Isiah is indicated god created both good and bad things and not reflective matter (stars) and hidden matter (dark matter).

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    “However, it is impossible for life to even begin so it is futile to even think about how it would developed.”

    Star, do you understand what a logical fallacy is? With regards to evolution, it makes no difference how it began or started, we know it began somehow b/c we are here talking about it! Like I’ve said 1000 times now, HOW life got started doesn’t negate what occurs later once life exists, and with Evolution we are talking about what occurs once life exists and not how it started. Now that you perhaps know the difference quit building logical false strawmen arguments so I don’t have to repeatedly burn them down.

    “If it is impossible for the building blocks of life to come into existence in the first place then any life that could come from it would also be impossible.”

    Ok, once again the communication barrier breaks down. Star, your statement above is about Abiogenesis, or’ how life arose’ and not on ‘how life changes over time’ aka evolution. Look star, regardless if your Abrahamic god poofed life into action, or if aliens engineered it left it here, or if it arose naturally via chemical bonding processes doesn’t negate what occurs afterwards once the life exists. Evolution only deals with life changing over time and not non life somehow resulting in life (Abiogenesis).

    We’re talking about evolution and it deals with life that already exists, please try to comprehend the difference and why ‘how life got here’ is a non factor regarding if life changes over time’.

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    agentorange

    Re: light and dark matter


    God created dark matter and he created light.

    Isaiah 45:7

    "I form light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

  • Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    agentorange

    Re:Seems to me you’re implying Isaiah indicates such things are part of our atmosphere. Did I misunderstand or misread this?

    “Isaiah 45:12”

    Yes, you did.

Please help us to monitor our message boards by flagging comments that are unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable.
Contact Us if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Comment on this story
ID Password

Don't have a Christian Post ID? Signing up is easy. Click Here

  • icon1
  • icon2
  • icon3
  • icon4
  • icon5
The Christian Post reserves the right to terminate the account of any User who violates our Terms of Use.
Advertisement
Advertisement
CP Shopping
  • Jewelry
  • Health
  • Gifts
  • DVD
  • Coins

Bracelets | Chains | Crosses | Earrings | Gemstone |

Featured contents & Giveaways
Joolwe :
Cross-pendant necklace
Zondervan

Struggling to succeed in the Nashville music scene, talented singer/songwriter Parker James finds the competition fierce even deadly. A young woman's murder, industry corruption, a

Featured Advertiser Links