Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Opinion|Tue, Aug. 18 2009 06:10 PM EDT

It Promises Far Too Little - The False Gospel of Prosperity Theology

By R. Albert Mohler, Jr.|Christian Post Guest Columnist

"God knows where the money is, and he knows how to get the money to you." That was the message of Gloria Copeland as she was speaking at the Southwest Believers' Convention recently held in Fort Worth, Texas. The event drew the attention of The New York Times and reporter Laurie Goodstein contributed a compelling report about the meeting and its message.

The Southwest Believers' Convention drew a crowd of more than 9,000 to hear an "all-star lineup" of preachers deliver the message of the prosperity gospel. One by one, the preachers and the speakers enticed the gathered thousands by offering them the assurance that God wants them rich -- even fabulously rich.

As Goodstein reports, the preachers were not shy about drawing attention to the luxurious lives they lead. "Private airplanes and boats. A motorcycle sent by an anonymous supporter. Vacations in Hawaii and cruises in Alaska. Designer handbags. A ring of emeralds and diamonds." According to the preachers of the prosperity gospel, these are merely examples of the riches and rewards that come to those who have sufficient faith -- and invest sufficient funds in the ministries of the prosperity preachers.

The New York Times took note of the fact that the current recession and financial distress did not keep the crowd from attending the Southwest Believers' Convention. The event is part of the ministry of Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, described by Laurie Goodstein as the "current patriarch and matriarch" of the prosperity gospel. The paper summarized their message as the promise that if an individual has sufficient faith in God and donates generously, God will reward that generosity by multiplying the offerings a hundredfold.

Those who might curtail their donations during the recession were warned of the spiritual consequences. "Fear will make you stingy," said Kenneth Copeland.

Goodstein's report included the story of Edwige Ndoudi, who attended the meeting with her husband and three children. Pointing to the prosperity experienced by the Copeland's, Ndoudi asserted: "If God did it for them, He will do it for us." Similarly, Stephen and Millie Biellier brought their family from Missouri with the confidence that 2009 could be their "overcoming year," even though they are $102,000 in debt. They credit the Copelands with rescuing them from a financial crisis two decades ago, and are now among the Copelands' "partners" in ministry. The Biellers spoke of their excitement as they participated in an effort to buy the Copeland ministry a Citation X airplane. They joined the "Elite CX Team" after Mrs. Biellier said she heard the Holy Spirit tell her, "You were born to support this man." The couple gave $2,000 toward the airplane and recently gave $1,800 toward the ministry's purchase of high-definition television equipment. She is proud that the Copelands fly on a private jet, explaining that "trashy people like Hugh Hefner" also have private airplanes.

Prosperity theology is not new, and it comes to the attention of the secular media again and again. In 2006 TIME magazine published a major cover story on prosperity theology, documenting its development and tracing its influence. As David Van Biema and Jeff Chu explained, prosperity theology "is a peculiarly American theology but turbocharged." This "turbocharged" theology offers a false hope, presents a failed message, and is a False Gospel. Continue »

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  • Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    I wonder if the apostles bought into the "prosperity gospel" and how rich they were?

  • Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:31 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show GM, the typical Word Faith nonsense, if a Christian is not physically healthy and materially wealthy it is their fault. The typical excuse used by the prosperity gospel proponents after somebody buys into their false teachings and sends them their money and gets nothing in return! hide

  • Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:27 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show GM, God promises eternal life to anyone who repents of their sin and turns to God by putting their complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of Christ alone, but no where does God promise that if a person becomes a Christian they will be guaranteed physical health and material wealth as the Word Faith Movement claims and promotes. One again you need to read Hebrews 11:35b-40. Plus, you might want to give Brother Andrew a call and speak to him about the cost of being a believer to those in the persecuted church. hide

  • Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show By the way, bigdawg, the scripture does read "The love of money is the root of all evil." hide

  • Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:14 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    No guarantee? Then you can not be certain that God will give you eternal life either.

    But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 1:6-8

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show GM, all great verses with promise, but none guarantee that God will always make us physically healthy and/or materially wealthy or that should even be of concern to a true follower of Jesus Christ,but that is the primary focus of the Word Faith Movement. hide

  • Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    For all the promises of God in him are yes, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us; 2 Corinthians 1:20. Therefore, like Abraham, I stagger not at the promise of God through unbelief; but I'm strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded that, what God has promised, he was able also to perform; Romans 4:20, 21. Neither am I slothful, but I am a follower of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises of God; Hebrews 6:12.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:35 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    GM, if the Word Faith Movement were promoting that then I would have no problem, but the Word Faith Movement has taken I Timothy 6:6 and reversed it to say that great gain leads to contentment as opposed to godliness leads to contentment which is great gain. Contentment can be realized only when we find ourselves in the center of God's Will joining God in doing His Will and if by chance that includes physical health and material wealth then so be it, but if it doesn't that's fine too. The Word Faith Movement promotes the idea that if you are in the center of God's Will you will be physically healthy and materially wealthy and if you're not then you are not in the middle of God's Will and/or you lack faith.

  • Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:50 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    The word of God ought to be our final authority. How do you think the Lord feels when the Christians he blesses are maligned for what he has given them.

    Do let anyone think that we are serving the God of money. If money comes to us as a result of obeying God and his word then what sin can we be guilty of? When we love God with all of our heart and believe his promises we can expect to receive from him:

    Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:21-23

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:08 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    --Continued--

    Another thing that caused a flag to go up in my mind in this article was this, "Stephen and Millie Biellier brought their family from Missouri with the confidence that 2009 could be their "overcoming year," even though they are $102,000 in debt. They credit the Copelands with rescuing them from a financial crisis two decades ago, and are now among the Copelands' "partners" in ministry. The Biellers spoke of their excitement as they participated in an effort to buy the Copeland ministry a Citation X airplane. They joined the "Elite CX Team" after Mrs. Biellier said she heard the Holy Spirit tell her, "You were born to support this man." The couple gave $2,000 toward the airplane and recently gave $1,800 toward the ministry's purchase of high-definition television equipment. She is proud that the Copelands fly on a private jet..." WAIT A MINUTE.. I'm no accountant or financial guru nor are these peoples' finances any of my business.. BUT They are $102,000 IN DEBT and want to give MORE money to the Copelands?? Is it ME or does this seem backward? We should be Godly stewards of the finances that The Lord has blessed us with and take care of our household FIRST! Thats where the basis of Christian service is birthed and MUST be fullfilled; in the HOME. IF we can't serve our family (physically, spiritually and financly) and take care of their needs then HOW and WHY would God place a greater responsability upon us? I dare NOT try to pasture a flock of God's children IF I am a tyrant at home AND we should dare NOT try to give of our resources when we have NEEDS (not WANTS) that require those same resources at home! Heaven forbid I run my home in the ground all the while I am "serving God" out side of the home.. I know too many Christians who are so busy at the Church, missions, etc. but have suffered ill consequences for neglecting their family.

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Good posts guys!

    Although I do not believe in the teachings of the "Prosperity Faith" bit. I do have to clarify something..

    Prophet-- " The love of money is the root of all evil....."

    That is not how the verse reads exactly..

    1 Timothy 6:10- "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs."

    The love of money is NOT the root of ALL evil... But all kinds of evils.. There is a difference.. The love of money itself is wrong, its idolatry to say the least. But Christians should never throw stones at others who might have more money or possessions than us other Christians or unbelievers alike.. Covetting is a sin just as lusting after things is.. God doesn't put degrees of evil on different sins.. Sin is sin and all sin is evil in God's eyes as it should be in ours.. As we all know, there are Christian brothers and sisters who have deligently set their hands to work and earn a very good living and in turn give unto the Lord as they are lead to do by His Spirit speaking to them accordingly. Wealth in the hands of a unfit person is like putting a scalpal in the hands of murderer. Money and a scapal can be used for good or evil and unrighteousness, its all whose holding the scapal and whose bank account the money is in..

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:40 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Or as Paul so eloquently put it...

    Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
    I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
    I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:38 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    We've got a lot a Christians running around serving the god of money, and not the True God. I wonder how many of those people would still serve God if they experienced a Job situation....

    Very few, I would suspect. People who serve God for the money and materials they can gain are immature and weak.

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:36 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    The love of money is the root of all evil.....

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:26 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    The prosperity gospel according to Proverbs 30:8-9

    "Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
    Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain"

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Outstanding post, my Brother Believer...reading it gave me goosebumps! Thanks for rightly dividing the WORD of God and bringing Truth to GM"s incomplete rendering of these Scripture verses. Bless you!


    "Brother Copeland"???

    I'm sorry, GM but...eeeuuwwwhh, he rings my false prophet alarms big time...WE MUST NEVER PRESUME ON GOD!
    When we do we lift our throne above.

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:49 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    GM, you read Hebrews 11:6 but you forgot to read Hebrews 11:35b-40, "...and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated(men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. And all these having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect." These believers were willing to forgo physical health and material wealth in order to serve God. This is certainly not the message we hear from the Word Faith Movement and in fact we hear just the opposite. They take I Timothy 6:6 and reverse it to say that great gain leads to contentment as opposed to godliness with contentment is great gain.

  • Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    Some people here are basing their comments on their experiences or tradition and not the word of God. Brother Copeland teaches based on God's word. Those who have listened and put into practice the principles of God's word have found those principles to be true. That is my testimony.

    Hebrews 11:6 tells us that God is a rewarded of those who diligently seeking him. Try as hard as you can, but you can not negate this and other scriptures that I have cited.

    If some of you do not want to participate in the spiritual, physical and financial blessings that God wants to give us that is your decision.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:21 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Good words from Prophet;

    >>"If the gospel of sacrifice, servitude, submission, giving, and selflessness were to creep into the Church, it would turn the Church on it's ear and revival would break forth."<<

    Psa 51:17 "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart-- These, O God, You will not despise."

    This broken spirit is not what the world celebrates and it is just what is needed within His Church.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:52 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    >>"**Just to clarify - people put stuff in the lobby that they don't want or need anymore for people to sift through before they throw it away. It has been the source of many of these "stupid miracles."<<

    Happy greetings to you Sister Amaranth,

    Thanks for your personal and profound truth; God delights His children with gifts, large and small.

    The difference I think is in His initiation of the process, not mine....I'm not giving God my list of expected treasures and tapping my foot impatiently at any delay. Rather, God delights in us to provide us our daily bread and that's all we really need! And we delight in Him because He answers our unspoken prayers.
    God is Good.

    Psa 37:25 "I have been young, and now am old; Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, Nor his descendants begging bread."<<

    ...His Grace is sufficent for me.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:06 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Quit telling God how much He's going to bless you. Just let Him do what He wants in your life. If He wants you to be a millionare, pray that He keeps you from temptation and directs you how to use HIS money for HIS Kingdom. If He chooses for you to make $15,000 a year, pray that He keeps you from temptation and directs you how to use HIS money for HIS Kingdom.
    If the gospel of sacrifice, servitude, submission, giving, and selflessness were to creep into the Church, it would turn the Church on it's ear and revival would break forth.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:03 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    The TRUE prosperity Gospel, as preached by Jesus:

    Seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness. Then these other things will be added.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:20 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Amen, Believer and DITL!! I wholeheartedly agree!! God is not an investment account that we put money into just so we can watch it multiply and proclaim "Look! God favors me!"

    I have received a couple of what I call "stupid miracles." I call them that because they are not things that I have actually asked for, but things that I wanted. For instance: I really wanted to bring the only coffee pot I had (which brewed up to two cups at a time into travel mugs) into my office. But that would leave me with no coffee pot at home. I didn't want to just buy a crappy coffee pot at Walmart, but I also couldn't afford to buy a nice one. See? Stupid and selfish. I was just thinking about this on a very superficial level. Not really caring, but still toying with the idea. This started on a Monday. The following Saturday, my sister found a 12 cup Gevalia coffee maker in perfect condition in the lobby of our apartment complex. She brought it up to my apartment without even knowing about my internal debate - just because she saw that it was Gevalia (awesome!) and knew that I liked coffee.

    Another time, I was looking at the mess of toys that my daughter had created and was simply thinking of finding out how much a toy organizer thing would be. The next day, I found a really nice wooden one in my lobby.

    **Just to clarify - people put stuff in the lobby that they don't want or need anymore for people to sift through before they throw it away. It has been the source of many of these "stupid miracles."

    I offer these as examples simply because God knows where we are - financially, physically, etc. We do not need to tell Him and we do not need to "invest" in Him in order to see a "good return." I give whatever amount of money I am able to give to the causes I care about. I routinely purge my daughter's clothes and toys that she can nolonger wear or that she doesn't play with and give them to people that need these things. I do this because I feel it is my duty as a Christian and it makes me happy when I can clear the clutter out of my home while helping others in the process.

    God does sometimes supply our wants, but He will ALWAYS supply our needs! Even when it doesn't seem that way. We simply need to evaluate our lives from a different perspective and see what He intends for us. Not what our intentions are.

    I firmly believe that the key to a happy life (whether wealthy or poor) is having a humble heart and the knowledge that what Christ did for us on the cross was done because He loves us. Not because He owes us anything. As the song says, "Not because of what I've done, but because of who You are. Not because of who I am, but because of what You've done."

    :)

  • mike »
    Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:18 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    GM

    'As to giving ten percent it might be news to you that Abraham gave 10% (Genesis 14:18-20) and Jacob did also (28:10-22). Tithing predates the law.'

    Genesis 3:17
    Then he said to the man, "You listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree, although I commanded you, 'You must never eat its fruit.' The ground is cursed because of you. Through hard work you will eat [food that comes] from it every day of your life.

    this predates abraham & the tithe.

    'As for having an airplane, it is a tool for ministry. Because the Copelands preach in different locations across the U.S. and also around the world; they use their plane to travel to and from their destinations.'

    god can use even a poor person to spread the gospel. and by the way, paul did not buy a golden ship to spread the gospel on his way to Asia minor, rome or in other areas he preached the gospel. and when he preached to gospel he did not preach that when the believers give their 10%, they will have wealth. he always focus on the gospel of christ.

  • mike »
    Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    to GM

    what verse does televangelist use to justify their prosperity gospel? Malachi, 10%. their concept or premise is your $100 will (poof) become $1000 & so forth because of the 'opening-of-heaven-you-have-no-room' verse.
    so I hear that from oral roberts, pat robertson & copelands. when christ said that material things loses its value, then why are these televangelist preaching that gospel.

    the gospel is about christ, his death, resurrection, power over death, god's unconditional love, forgiveness, mercy, his desire to have a lasting relationship with us & not getting rich or buying a private jet. with that kind of message, we become overwhelmed with his love give us peace & joy which no money can buy. it is nice to have $1 million on the side but that is based on outside circumstances. I will admit that $1m can lessen your stress. but god values relationship with us. if we are focus on a million & not on god's relationship, then there is not relationship with him.
    christ told the parable of the banquest & the master of the banquest invited the lame, blind, poor, everybody his servant can call bec. god is the one who desires to bring us into his kingdom with greater riches that the temporal world.
    that is my take for these prosperity gospel.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:24 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    >>"The only thing I need to do to experince and know those things is to simply keep my eyes on the Cross of Christ, because the Cross is the greatest demonstration of God's love, goodness, and grace the world will ever know!"<<

    Amen, Believer, we need only to know Christ Crucified to appropriate God's Love, Goodness and Grace.

    If I look to expand my treasures on earth, I will always want for more and if I felt God did not provide for me these things, I would be apt to be disappointed with God. Where do we draw the line between loving God with a pure heart and loving God for expectation of good things?

    Weren't we told by Jesus that the world would hate us and that we would have afflicition here? This world is not our home, we must expect tribulation for standing for the Faith and if we are blessed by God with riches along the way, that is a bonus and not a reward for a simple and humble faith.

    God is not running a game-show for believers here on earth to reward our response to Him, rather this time on earth is our proving ground for enduring faith in difficult circumstances and in tribulation.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:09 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 7

    Here's an idea? Why don't the Copelands and other like minded preachers in the world live off of 10% and offer the other 90% (or even 5% and 95%) to missions, humanitary aide, Bibles to those who need them? Now I could be wrong in that they do these things now.. BUT as the article mentioned "As Goodstein reports, the preachers were not shy about drawing attention to the luxurious lives they lead. "Private airplanes and boats. A motorcycle sent by an anonymous supporter. Vacations in Hawaii and cruises in Alaska. Designer handbags. A ring of emeralds and diamonds." Why are those who should be focused on The Lords work here on this Earth worry about these things? Designer handbags? A ring of emeralds and diamonds? Where does flaunting these things in front of others glorify God? It doesn't...

    This over abundance seems a bit too much like self preservation and not the well fair of the masses. Could we all not do without so that others who need will have?

    Am I saying that God will NOT bless us with wealth? By no means! But we too often associate "wealth" with monitary things.. Its not, God doesn't always bless us the same we offer a blessing unto Him. Just becuase I might give 75% of my paycheck doesn't necessarily mean that The Lord will in return bless me with money in return. We need to to put God in a "reciprical box" on how he chooses to bless those who are faithfully obedient to Him. He is God of the universe!!

    Am I "hatin'" against those who The Lord has blessed? NO! Absolutely not! BUT, how are they handling the blessings they are given?

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:12 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    "Unfortunately - our WANTS are greater than our NEEDS"

    Amen! Fortunately, His majestic Spirit is teaching me daily to tell the difference. Praise the Lord!

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:45 am Agree: 8   Disagree: 0

    The LORD promised us that HE will provide all our NEEDS according to HIS riches through CHRIST JESUS.
    Unfortunately - our WANTS are greater than our NEEDS.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:05 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    "And I continue to pray that the Lord prospers each of you spiritual, physically and financially so that you may better understand his love, goodness and grace."

    Moses wandered the desert for 40 years, never riding a camel, never having a diamond tie clasp. THERE'S someone who really did not understand God's love, goodness, and grace. Paul had a physical ailment, and had to work as a tentmaker! Another one who just didn't get it. In fact, most of the people mentioned in Hebrews 11 did not understand God's goodness, grace, and love.

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:28 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    GM, please show me how I twisted your words in your last post, since I directly quoted you?

  • Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:10 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer,

    I pray for you because it appears that you do not fully understand God's love, goodness and grace. And I have noticed that you take the words that I post and twist their meaning to say something that I did not say...

  • mike »
    Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:05 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    to believer

    I totally agree with you.

    Luke 8:1 Afterward he journeyed from one town and village to another, preaching and proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. Accompanying him were the Twelve
    2 and some women who had been cured of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,
    3 Joanna, the wife of Herod's steward Chuza, Susanna, and many others who provided for them out of their resources.

    these verse shows that these women gave for the gospel of god his unconditional love & they were not expecting in return like 10 golden chariots with 20 horses in return. We give to god bec. of his gift not expecting something in return.

    PROSPerity is biblical - PROVERBS
    but prosperity THEOLOGY is not biblical because it moves us away from the gospel.

  • Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:56 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    GM, "I pray that the Lord prospers each of you spiritual, physically and financially so that you may better understand his love, goodness and grace." So if God doesn't bless us with physical health and material wealth we can't understand God's love, goodness, and grace? The only thing I need to do to experince and know those things is to simply keep my eyes on the Cross of Christ, because the Cross is the greatest demonstration of God's love, goodness, and grace the world will ever know!

  • Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Good morning to all,

    I hope that you all had a great Lord's day as I did. And I continue to pray that the Lord prospers each of you spiritual, physically and financially so that you may better understand his love, goodness and grace. I encourage readers to review the scriptures that I have posted here so that you may recognize that God desires his best for us.

    As for the charge of apostasy it does not apply to brother Copeland since he agrees with the fundamentals of our faith; he does not just say that Jesus is Lord, he does the will of the Father also. I hope the same can be said about each of you.

  • Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:09 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    The Kingdom of God has nothing to do with money. But thru the years, it has become a major 'sermon'. Just like everything else in life, it has consumed us. God's Word is the final authority. It will never fail. If us dumb humans would realize that we must obey His every Word, then He is obligated to fulfil that very Word in our lives. It's a stinch in the nostrils of God for any man or woman to preach 'prosperity' in the day we live. Who really preaches again 'sin'? The America church has gotten what they wanted, 'give me a message that makes me full good.'

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    blacksho, thanks for providing those facts about the false teachings taught by many in the Word Faith camp.

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    GM, nice way of taking a passage out of context to make it fit the false gospel of the prosperity message since that passage has absolutely nothing to do with gaining physical health and financial wealth and considering those words were spoken by John the Baptist should make it pretty obvious. It was not about that at all but about John simply being the front runner for Jesus Christ and now that Christ was physically present he had no issue whatsoever with more people being drawn to Christ and His ministry as opposed to John's ministry and in fact that's what John desired as well.

  • MGT2 »
    Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I keep saying Ephesians 6:9-10. It should be 1 Timothy 6:9-10. Sorry about that.

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:53 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Is prosperity wrong? NO. Greed, selfishness, pride, indulgence and the list goes on is sin. I don't know of many in the prosperity movement that haven't spent those "blessings" on themselves....

    Now with that said, I know of a man who is not (to my knowledge) into the prosperity movement. He lives off of 10% of his income and gives the other 90% to the Lords work. It has been that way for quite a few decades now. God continues to bless him because he put his service before his money. God built up the wealth as a RESULT of his stewardship. The prosperity gospel puts the money ahead of the stewardship. That is the difference....

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:48 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    1Ti 6:5-8 "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into [this] world, [and it is] certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content."


    Jam 4:3-4 "You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend {it} on your pleasures. You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God."



    Sop much for the prosperity doctrine.....

  • MGT2 »
    Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prosperity preachers like to use an abundance of bible verses to bolster their teachings. But like an unprincipled sales person, these are deceptive tactics, misdirections to confuse the unsuspecting.

    Here is one example posted by GraceMan as proof that the bible supports prosperity theology:

    "Hebrews 11:6 – God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him."

    Now, who really believes that this verse is talking about material wealth? Yet that is what they do; they take verse fragments, or even complete verses, lift them from their contexts and arrive at a patchwork conclusion.

    My son was being funny one day when the lifted the phrase "suffer the little children" from Mark 10:14 and say that Jesus wants children to suffer. Clearly, when put in its proper context, this definitely not what Jesus is saying.

    That is how prosperity preachers make their argument. But it is unbiblical.

  • MGT2 »
    Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:58 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    The issue is not prosperity, and to frame it as such is intellectual sophistry and slight of hand.

    Of course, God wants us to prosper as our souls prosper. But did the Bible not say that God has chosen the poor to be rich in faith? And isn't that what God calls us to live by--faith?

    Did Jesus not also say that it is more difficult for the rich to enter the Kingdom? Not that they cannot, but that their riches make it more difficult for them.

    And as Ephesians 6:9-10 clearly implies, it is not God's desire for us to make earthly riches our life's pursuit. Yet, this is what prosperity theology espouses.

    What did Jesus say to the rich young ruler who inquired about the way to gain eternal life? Jesus told to give away all his wealth and follow him.

    The principles of prosperity theology is based upon works, not faith. The faith they speak of is not the same that we are called to live by. The faith they speak of is the same type that Christ died to free us from: giving material things in order to receive material blessings. That was the Law of Moses which Paul tells us in Galatians 3:12, is not of faith.

    So when the prosperity teachers say that it is an act of faith to "sow" or give "seed faith," they are misleading you. They are preaching unbiblical principles.

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:55 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Kenneth Copeland: "Adam is an exact duplicate of God, and not even subordinate to Him" (Following the Faith of Abraham I, side I.

    Joseph Smith "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Deseret Press.)

    God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:48 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    GM: "Blacksho89,

    God a vending machine? Nothing could be further from the truth. God knows our hearts and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him (Hebrews 11:6)."

    Gloria Copeland: "Paul did not receive the healing he asked for in 2 Co 12:8 because he asked God to heal him when in reality he could have done it himself!" (Believer's Voice of Victory, 11:11, November 1983 "Paul's Thorn in the Flesh".)

    So according to you and the Copelands, Paul was not a diligent seeker of God?

    Brother, I implore you to study the Word untainted by the apostasy of the WF preachers. Get a MacArthur Study Bible, or a Bible with NO notes at all, and read it for yourself, under the guidance of the Spirit, not of men. The god of the Copelands is one who can be programmed to do whatever you want-and THAT god, brother, is an idol.

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:46 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    MGT2

    Sorry, but no one has reduced the message of the Gospel to monetary, earthly blessings, but it does include them.

    I am so amazed that (1) Christians superimpose their own ideas on top of what the Bible actually says and (2) that some are so quick to judge the motives of their fellow believes whom they have never met and whose lives and ministries they do not fully see.

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    MGT2

    Is prosperity unbiblical? No, it is quite Biblical!

    Psalm 1 & Joshua 1:8 – Meditate on God's word and you will prosper.

    Luke 6:38 – give and it will be given to you

    2 Corinthians 9:6 – You sow bountifully then you will reap bountifully

    2 Corinthians 9:7 - God loves a hilarious giver

    2 Corinthians 9:8 God is able to make all grace abound to the give so he will have a sufficiency for every good work

    Psalm 34:9, 10 – they that seek the Lord will not lack any good thing

    Philippians 4:19 – Our God will supply all of our needs

    Proverbs 3:9, 10 - When we honor the Lord with our increase he fills our brans and storehouses

    Hebrews 11:6 – God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

    Do fall into the misconception that we desired material possession as an end it itself. We love God with all our heart, soul and mind and no possession is more precious to us than him.

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:41 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Kenneth Copeland: "I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is...The biggest one is God" (Praise the Lord: Praise-a-thon program, TBN, April 1988)

    The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is not a failure. I really don't know who Kenneth is talking about.

    Copeland: "God is a man about 6'2" tall, weighs around 200 lbs, and has a hand span of around 9". (Audiotape, "Spirit, Soul, and Body", tape # 01-0601, KCM, 1985.

    Joseph Smith: "If you saw God today, you would see him like a man in form-like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man." (Joseph Smith, King Follet Sermon, April 7 1844)

    The Bible: "God is spirit" John 4:24

    It gets worse, folks. And the Copelands are not the most egregious apostates in the Word Faith cults.

  • MGT2 »
    Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    To reduce the message of the Gospel to monetary, earthly blessings, is preaching another gospel--a false gospel. That is what the Copelands preach.

    The Word of God does not contradict its own teachings, and it is clear from Ephesians 6:9-10 and other passages, that the Gospel is not about material wealth.

    Those that claim to benefit from the principles of prosperity theology mischaracterize their success as God's blessings. These so-called successes simply fall within the statistical probability for such predictions and do not indicate divine blessings or approbation.

    Much, much more Christians do not see any such "blessings," and in fact, many incur serious financial loss as a result. Therefore, many more can testify to the failure of prosperity theology than those that claim it works.

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:34 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Blacksho89,

    God a vending machine? Nothing could be further from the truth. God knows our hearts and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him (Hebrews 11:6).

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